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Q:
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buggy eyed rat snakes,is it really a disorder?
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I'm sure everyone has heard of the famous "buggy eyes" in lucy rat snakes but im curious if its a valid thing or not. I mena obviously yes the eyes are huge,but rat snakes in general have big eyes to me. Everywhere i've read about the famous "buggy eyed disorder" has been on forums or on sites that just said "he said she said" sorta thing with no back up proof that its a defect. I've also heard there are lucy rat snakes that don't have the buggy eyes and have normal eyes,but they look exactly the same.
Is there any well respected website stating it is a defect or someone that has brought it out and proved that it really is a defect and not just the rat snake being lucy that makes their eyes look bigger?
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Author Comment
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11/24/2009 1:52:20 AM
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 2:20:32 AM
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Lashman
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Quick reply, Too much going on to go find resources.
My understanding is - yes there are those where eyes seems normal. They do not all have buggy eye. Yes many do. A deffect? I think the debat continues? I seen some that sure don't look right! Would a person that looked buggy eye be considered to have a defect?
But it is something that appeared and gotten worse (more buggy) in many lines. I don't remember details of normals eyes from buggy eye breeding or vice versa?
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 3:37:42 AM
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abi21491
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There is definitely a difference between the normal eyes and bug eyes. I personally would consider the bug eyes a defect. The funny thing about traits is that we could consider them defects or desirable traits depending on what we think of them. The bug eyes to me look uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure it is genetic, but I'm not sure. Here are some examples:
Bug eyes - http://up3.m5zn.com/photo/2009/5/29/05/lzf8ya27b.jpg/jpg
Normal eyes - http://www.trosch.org/jpi/snakerat.jpg
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 8:22:40 AM
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FyreFocks
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I have bug eyes!
Yeah, its viewed as a defect by some, but as far as i can tell, it doesnt affect their way of life. So really, the question is, do you think its a defect?
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 8:33:31 AM
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 8:59:18 AM
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JohnJohn
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Wow. I've never even heard of that! Guess I need to get out more!
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Member Comment
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11/24/2009 10:37:43 AM
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Peepz
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Not sure if this will help answer your question, but this is my experience with the bug-eyed lucy rats. I have 3 lucy rats, 1 has buggy eyes, the other 2 have normal eyes. I've noticed with the bug-eyed snake, he misses alot when striking during feeding time. He also tends to tilt his head at odd angles when trying to look at you.
I did breed my normal eyed lucy rats together this year. Out of 5 eggs, 3 had normal eyes, 2 had the bug eyes.
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Author Comment
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11/24/2009 4:22:49 PM
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Leiren
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those photos still kinda look the same but cause of the angle its decieving almost. I still see the dark blue trim around both the eyes that makes them "buggy" but I don't know. It doesn't really bother me,I think the buggy eyes are adorable but I was told mine didn't have it even though I still don't see much difference in them. Not that I really care if mine has it or not I still luffs him and he doesn't seem to be having the problems as people have listed.
Peepz do you have any pictures?I think your case could really clarify it for me haha.
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Accepted Answer
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11/24/2009 5:20:04 PM
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aSnakeLovinBabe
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The bug eyed trait is an actual recessive mutation. Some call it a defect, but then again any recessive mutation, whether it be leucistic, or albino, or anerythristic or scaleless is actually a "defect" because it is the direct result of something not working the way it is supposed to. There is a HUGE difference in the size of the eyes between a bug eyed snake and one with normal eyes. If you have to guess at it, it's probably not a bug eyed snake you are looking at. Their eyes just look plain unnatural. It can have bug eyes even if it is not leucistic, because it is all together a separate gene. Actually the first bug eyed snake i had ever seen was an otherwise normal texas rat snake. The gene was likely brought out during inbreeding attempting to prove the leucistic or some other mutation. It just so happened that the carriers for that gene also were secretly carrying the trait for bug eyes. I owned a bug eyed albino leucistic texas rat for 2-3 years (i sold him). He always seemed to have "bad aim" and he wouldn't strike his food, I would have to rub a wet mouse on his nose until he started drinking, and then he would open his mouth wider and take the mouse. He was a nice snake, but I could just never get over those huge bulging eyes. You can see like, the veins and the part that's past the iris which, on a normal snake you would not be able to see. As they grow up, the bulging eyes tone down a bit and are not as drastic as they are on a tiny hatchling, but they are still obvious and are not at all a desirable trait (to most people at least). I am unsure of why people continued to produce animals with bulging eyes, but then again people also produce eyeless turtles. I guess it's not nearly as bad though, considering they still have eyes, just slightly bigger ones......
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Assisted Answer
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11/24/2009 5:24:17 PM
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aSnakeLovinBabe
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and for added input, here are some photos of the ratsnake I used to own. You can see how parts of the eyeball past the iris and the pupil are visible, and in a normal snake, those parts are hidden under their scales. The last photo is particularly disturbing.....
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/Snakes/Rats/P1080385.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/Snakes/Rats/023.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/Snakes/Rats/024.jpg
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Author Comment
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11/24/2009 5:45:42 PM
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Leiren
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holy crap ew haha! I would have to say those photos solve the mystery for today LOL
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Member Comment
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11/25/2009 6:11:26 AM
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