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Q:
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Baby Beardie acting weird
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I brought home my baby beardie Spunkly, on the 5th. He appeared to be in good health and has been eating well. On the 11th he ate six pinheads in the morning, and eight mini mealworms at night. The next morning his belly and chin were covered in stress marks and he had no interest in food. He did poop later on in the day, as usual. I soaked him in case he was dehydrated, but it didn't make any difference in his apearance or demeanor. I offered him both crickets and mini mealworms two more times, and he ate only one meal worm. This morning I turned his light on and see that his stress marks are darker and he looks skinny. He's also far less active than normal. Anybody have any ideas what could be going on?
Attached Photos:
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Author Comment
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5/13/2012 10:23:04 AM
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GeckoGeek
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His stress marks just went away and he's eating now. I think it was an issue of cage set up. I made him a hammock, which he loves, but it only spans about 3/4 of the side of the tank, so I can't fit both the UV and heat lamp over it completely, and he naturally gravitates towards the UV, causing him to not be in the proper spot to get enough heat. I just switched things around. I wish they were in the same fixture. Anyone had this issue before?
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Member Comment
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5/13/2012 4:12:48 PM
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VJReptiles
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i wouldnt feed him meal worms babys have a hard time digesting them , and can lead to impaction this may or may not be the case but id wait untill he's bigger for meal worms
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Author Comment
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5/13/2012 4:51:33 PM
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GeckoGeek
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They're mini meal worms. Only about a quarter of an inch in length. I heard that they were ok because their shells aren't as hard.
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Member Comment
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5/13/2012 5:41:07 PM
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Floof
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I don't like any kind of mealworms, ever. Nasty little things, with hard exoskeletons (even if they're "not as hard" they're still very tough compared to better feeders and impaction is still a very real concern) and awful nutritional content. I agree with ditching the mealworms completely. Stick to things like crickets and, if you can get them, phoenix worms and silkworms.
Anyway, glad you got the problem figured out! Yes, temperatures are important. Once you get him into a large enough tank, since you have issues with using two separate bulbs, you might look into Mercury Vapor Bulbs like the PowerSun. They're too powerful for a small tank (nothing under a 20 Long at the very smallest when using these bulbs), but they are great bulbs. They're an all-in-one, heat and UVB in the same bulb. The Reptisun 10.0 tubes are good, too, but I prefer the MVBs (of course, research brands--they aren't all reliable) for my beardie and torts.
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Assisted Answer
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5/13/2012 6:22:22 PM
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dave968
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We give ours waxworms and he loves them. Also hookworms but yours might be too small for those yet. I've heard mixed things about meal worms but we give them to ours on occasion and he does fine but he is a full grown male. He grabs them and then smashes their heads against the wall before eating them. Kinda gross but he seems to enjoy himself.
Is he eating fruits and veggies as well?
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Member Comment
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5/13/2012 6:31:04 PM
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Floof
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Waxworms should be given strictly as a treat---very fatty. Hornworms (I assume that's what Dave meant by "hookworms") are also a great feeder, though they grow extremely fast and get BIG. You can order them extremely small and keep them in a cold area to inhibit their growth til they're gone, though. Hornworms are my boy's favorite. :)
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Assisted Answer
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5/14/2012 12:31:09 AM
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l3r0k3nh34rt
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I gave mine meal worms the first week I got them. It almost killed my male because he got extremely impacted. I feed mine as many crickets as they can eat on a daily basis with salad available at all times. He seems too big for pinheads actually. I would move him up to small crickets and offer them to him everyday until he is full
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Assisted Answer
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5/14/2012 11:27:21 AM
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shellboa
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First thing I would consider is switching to a mercury vapor bulb, plenty of heat and UV from one source. You can feed a baby small meal worms with no issues, the whole bitten by a worm thing is more about superworms than mealworms and applies more to small geckos and frogs than a lizard that can chew. I didn't notice anything about veggies in your post, I hope you are feeding him plenty of those too.
Couple other hints, dust feeder insects with a calcium supplement (I prefer Minerall) Compact flourescent UV bulbs have to be practically on top of the lizard to give proper amounts of UV plus any UV bulb only last 6 months to a year before you need to replace it. The bulb is filled with a gas that burns to produce the UV rays, the amount of gas is of course limited and within 6 months or so is burned off, the light bulb still lights but no more UV.
A variety of feeder insects is a good idea, crickets, meal worms, wax worms and small roaches are most likely going to be the easiest to get. Here is a chart comparing nutritional values.
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Assisted Answer
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5/14/2012 11:43:54 AM
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Tiger Onzuka
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From my expereince, a baby dragon that won't take Mini Mealworms is in trouble! :-(
We do NOT feed them exclusively, but they do work in emergencies for finnicky eaters...
The first thing I would suggest that you simplify his cage design. We keep our babies in a 20 gallon long with paper towels on a table (3 feet standard height). They are absolutely stressed out with cages too close to the floor. On one side we have a half moon peice of wood for a basking spot. We use a standard 75 watt light bulb with an 18 inch 10.0 UVB going across the entire cage. If the baby is hiding all the time...change the basking spot.
Remember, Bearded Dragons have EXCELLENT VISION. If you have simplified the cage design as mentioned above, then you can consider using xerox paper to hide the views from three directions in the cage. If still no quick improvement then you can hide ALL views.
We give veggies, turnip and mustard greens, to our babies each morning. Sometimes with small diced Yellow Squash as a treet. Two week old crickets are offered daily, however be careful NOT to let crickets stay in the cage over night. Food and constant water dish is always the opposite side of the basking area. We also offer dragon pellets, the really small ones that are ALL red...no fancy colors!
We also use a timer for the light cyclet. Babies definitely like routines and we give 12 hours of light per day. They do NOT like being disturbed after lights out for any reason.
Keep handling at a minimum....Mist the dragon instead of bathing for now.
Routines are important and you can contact the breeder to see how they house the babiesas well.
KEEP IT SIMPLE. Dragons are extremely smart as far as lizards go and it can take time to earn their trust.
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Author Comment
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5/14/2012 3:35:21 PM
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GeckoGeek
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Thans for the advice everyone!
Floof (love the name by the way), I saw those Mercury Vapor Bulbs in a pet store and was wondering what they applied to. Spunkly is in a 20 gl long now. Do you think that would work if I got the lowest wattage bulb?
Dave, that does sound like it'd be amusing to watch. I've yet to convince mine to eat any fruits or veggies. I've tried collard greens, kale, strawberries, pineapple, and dandelion. He shows no interest. I was able to convince him to try one lick of butternut squash baby food. I'm not sure how to change his mind. He always has access to them.
Ashley, that photo may be a little misleading because of the angle. He's a little under three inches from snout to vent. The pinheads that are available around here are more like smalls anyway. Glad you were able to save your guy. I'll keep that in mind about the meal worms.
Shellboa, I'm defifntetly going to look into these mercury vapor bulbs. I dust his crickets with a calcium and d3 supplement every feeding, which is twice a day. Thanks for the link. It's good to have that information. I intend to get him some wax worms next because I've seen them available around here.
Tiger, he does take mini meal worms. He seems to prefer them to crickets, but I make sure his diet is more cricket than meal worm. He is in a 20gl long, on paper towels, with a large piece of driftwood, water and food dishes, and a hammock. He has a 100watt (75 wasn't warm enough) bulb, and an 18in Reptiglo 10. I have two sides of the tank blocked from veiw. I feed him in a seperate container (he doesn't seem stressed by this) on top of his tank, so no crickets are in there to bother him. I'll try turnip greens and yellow squash. Maybe he just hasn't had the right temptation to get him started yet. I don't give him dragon pellets because I've heard a lot of mixed things about them. What brand do you use? I don't have a timer for his lights, but I make sure I turn them on at exactly 9am, and off at exactly 9pm. I try not to handle him much, being that he's so little and speedy. He drinks water off the end of my finger every day. Is that adequate, or do they need the humidity that misting offers?
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Accepted Answer
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5/14/2012 4:19:44 PM
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Floof
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Whether you can use an MVB on a 20 Long depends as much on your household and other such factors as anything else. I know my house is warm enough (no AC, lots of heat lamps--uck!) that I would never get away with an MVB on a 20L without cooking the animal, but in a cooler area/house, you should be able to do it. Since it takes a 100 watt bulb to get your basking spot to temp right now, it sounds like an MVB should be ok on your tank. It's worth a try, anyway!
As far as your current UVB is concerned, I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember ReptiGlo being a poor quality bulb. Keep in mind that not all UVB bulbs are created equal. I still refuse to go near compact fluorescent UVBs because of their history of causing eye infections and other health problems, even though the companies claim to have fixed the problems. I use PowerSuns for my MVBs (and a T-Rex Active UVHeat, but last I checked they're out of production--which sucks, because mine is due for replacement, and I love the thing), and ReptiSun 10.0 tubes when I need to go with fluorescent (I've heard Arcadia 12% is a fantastic bulb, too, and now available in the US, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet).
Also keep in mind the "rules" of UVB bulbs. Shellboa mentioned the lifespan of UVB bulbs: It's recommended to replace fluorescent UVBs every 6 months; MVBs tend to last longer, with recommended replacement at around 8-12 months. The other rule is distance. With most fluorescent tubes (Arcadia being a possible exception from what little I've read on the brand), you want the lizard to be able to get within about 6-8" of the bulb. Pretty easy to do in something like a 20L, not so easy on bigger tanks/enclosures! With MVBs, it's said you don't want the bulb closer than about 10-12" for the 100 watt, but not farther than around 18" (with 160 watts, it's said you want around a 16-24" distance.. as in, no closer than about 16-18" and not farther than around 24").
Once your beardie is bigger (more established, and easier to keep hold/track of), you can also take him out to bask in natural, unfiltered sunlight. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the best UVB source for a reptile is the sun itself, so any time you can get your beardie out, safely and securely, to bask in the sun, is wonderful. Of course, always make sure the weather is appropriate if you do this. Cold and/or wet weather isn't exactly healthy for your dragon. With my adult male, I try not to take him out if air temps are below 70F; for a small juvenile, you'll probably want to aim for warmer temps.
In addition to the feeder chart shellboa linked to, I'd highly recommend taking a look at this nutritional chart: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html It is a nutritional chart geared toward bearded dragons, that looks at many different plant and animal food options for your dragon. As far as his stubbornness toward veggies, remember that hatchlings won't always take to them right away. But, always keep offering! An adult dragon that hasn't learned that greens are food is hell to deal with. I took my male in as a sub-adult rescue, who had never been offered veggies, over 3 years ago. Talk about a pain--it took until this year to get him to actually eat salad willingly & consistently!
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Member Comment
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5/15/2012 3:56:46 PM
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dave968
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@Floof We have been keeping our beardie at my wife's school since we adopted him a few years ago and he gets to live in a greenhouse with awesome sunlight and heat. Unfortunately due to budget cuts the stupid school won't pay for many of the animals to stay there any longer and he is coming home now.
Because of the natural sunlight and heat he was getting we didn't have any need for supplemental light so now I need to get something for him. He is in a 55 gallon tank and depending on what room we put him in the ambient temps will be between 65-75. What do you recommend for a MVB for this set-up? Would a 100 watt bulb be too much?
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Member Comment
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5/15/2012 4:39:12 PM
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Floof
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Dave-- Spoiled beardie! That sucks that he can't stay there, though. As far as your MVB, your best bet would be to start with the 100 watt and go from there. 100 watts should do the trick in that set up. If you have to move the bulb closer than 10-12" to get the basking spot to temp, then it's time to consider either upping the wattage or supplementing with a second lamp.
100 watts has always worked for my 3-4' enclosures, in temperatures ranging from one spring when the house stayed consistently in the low to mid 60s, to springs/summers like this one where the house is constantly 75-80F. The key is being able to adjust the distance between your bulb and basking spot. Lamp stands are a fantastic investment, and it helps if you can adjust the height of your basking spot, too.
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Author Comment
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5/15/2012 8:45:18 PM
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GeckoGeek
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Thank you for the distance information on the MVBs. That's good to know. I'll see what I can come up with.
I do take him outside, when the weather permits it, in a container without a lid. He seems to enjoy the scenery.
I have that chart saved to my favorites. I sincerely appreciate whoever made that. Today my guy appeared very intrigued by yellow squash, so that's a good sign. What finally convinced yours to eat veggies? Did he just do it on his own?
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Assisted Answer
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5/15/2012 10:27:22 PM
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Fishbone
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Most will go to veggies on their own. Of all the babies I've seen, some will eat veggies right away, some take up to 4-6 months to really start eating them. In my experience, mustard greens and butternut squash seem to entice them the most at first. The curly leaves and the qrangish colour is what it seems to me. It really doesn't seem to make much of a difference while they are still little, as long as they get enough protein/insects while they are still growing quickly. I also second the no mealies bit.
Read that whole site that you have linked above, especially the health page. Lots of good info there.
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Member Comment
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5/15/2012 11:38:00 PM
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Floof
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I think what finally did it was that I changed his enclosure. I moved him from a 75 gallon aquarium to a plywood enclosure, only one see-through side as opposed to all 4 sides being see-through previously. Best I can figure, it's the feeling of security he has in the new enclosure.
Keep in mind this is with a stubborn, fully grown adult male who hadn't been offered greens at all for the first year or so of his life... As Fishbone said, babies who are offered greens will usually go onto them of their own accord as they grow. So, with any luck, you shouldn't have to deal with a problem like mine. :)
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