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Q: sick biak gtp
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after feeding my biak gtp 1 rat pup, she looked interested in a 2nd, i gave it to her, she took it. after a couple days we noticed a nasty smell in the room, and looked at our snakes, i noticed she had regurgitated a rat that had started to be digested. since then she has been refusing food, drinking large amounts of water and then spitting it all up, defecating profusely, and not acting as spunky and mean as she usually does. any ideas? 

tried feeding her today, she gave it a warning strike to start, then seemed like she took it, biting and coiling as usual, but then quickly let it go. she did this twice with no actual eating. didnt even finish the job, poor rat was limping around afterwards.

she seemed to be in shed for the past few days, nothing has come off though...not sure.. ive added some extra light, misting more often, more water to drink, and a little more heat since its been kinda chilly. also not handled her as much. 

thank you!

Attached Photos:

Points: 150
Topics: General Health , Feeding , Regurge
Tags: Biak, GTP, Refusedfood, Regurge
Species: Pythons > Morelia > Morelia viridis
Administrative: Show/Hide

Member Comment 10/1/2009 4:19:36 PM

How are your temps and humidity?
Author Comment 10/1/2009 4:27:33 PM

We have a 75 watt on her right now. Were going to put in some bedding to hold more humidity. But we keep the misting up
Member Comment 10/1/2009 4:29:35 PM

Do you have exact numbers? Its very important for GTPs that you know these things.
Author Comment 10/1/2009 4:46:53 PM

nope dont have a temp gauge in there..
Member Comment 10/1/2009 4:49:43 PM

Well my first piece of advice is to check your temps and humidity.
Author Comment 10/1/2009 4:50:53 PM

just checked it, seems to be around 85-90 right now, its low humidity, but i keep misting her all day..at night it gets down to like 65 in the room, but we have a heat lamp thats making it around 85 when shes close to it.
Member Comment 10/1/2009 4:53:38 PM

65 is fairly low for a young GTP and would definitely contribute to regurgitation. Your heat lamp is probably removing a lot of humidity as well. Maybe try a ceramic heat emitter if you cant use a radiant heat panel.

How long has it been since the regurg?

If its in shed now, it probably wont eat. I know mine doesnt.
Author Comment 10/1/2009 4:56:13 PM

that might be the case which im hoping for..umm its been like a week and a half since that. the rat mightve been a little large, we did try feeding her a second.
Member Comment 10/1/2009 5:01:25 PM

please give her longer to recover after a regurge. at least 2 weeks - when it happens, their strong stomach acids fry their upper mucous membranes and it takes a lot of time for them to heal properly. better to have a hungry snake, then a snake with damaged tissues.
Member Comment 10/1/2009 5:03:48 PM

Sonja K. Reptiles
I believe it's usually best to take it real slow with the feedings after a snake has regurgitated. I'd start by giving it time to rebuild the acid in its stomach, and then start offering smaller meals than it had been eating.
Author Comment 10/1/2009 5:05:48 PM

those sound like useful peices of information! thank you both...
Member Comment 10/1/2009 7:46:05 PM

I'm not a GTP person by any means, but this thought occurred to me... You make it sound like you have the heat lamp on all night. Now, unless it's a "night" bulb, that means you're seriously upsetting its day/night cycle. Even if it is a night bulb, as has been mentioned earlier, heat lights dry stuff out like NUTS.. The hotter the bulb, the drier the enclosure, to boot. CHE's aren't much better with that, but it would eliminate any stress the snake might get from a light.

Also, yes, give it longer. If it doesn't seem to have recovered yet (and by the sounds of it, it hasn't), you should just leave it alone... Keep conditions perfect (or as perfect as possible--now may be a good time to improve your set up, i.e. fixing the humidity/dry out issues) until she's acting "normal" (or close to), then try a small meal.

Hope this helps, and good luck. =)
Member Comment 10/1/2009 8:48:37 PM

One of two things is going to happen. Your chondro is going to get well or die. I've had 50/50 on regurges. It's not like with Emmys where it's the death knell, but it's not good.

First, get rid of that light, and buy three things:

1.) temp gun
2.) ceramic heat emitter
3.) thermostat (if you don't have one on her)

Give Celia consistent heat. 65 at night is low, but it's not the cause of the regurge IMO, and that's a pretty strong opinion.

You don't say where you got her from. Imports typically will have more crap going on inside them than farm bred, than captive bred. If it is parasitic, you can cover those bases with Flagyl (if it's an amoeba type / protozoa thing) as well as Panacur for worms. Both of those drugs will wipe out all of the good and bad nasties in them. Other reasons for regurge range from Paramyxo to temps that are simply too high during the daytime. 

Do NOT try to feed her until 3-4 weeks after her last regurge. If she was healthy going in (since she ate on 9/8 and  9/16 she should be good). Put in the last regurge date so you have it, and make sure that she stays on your WHOS HUNGRY list and wait.

Personally, I would give her a week from the last gurge, and then start meds as the side effects are minimal if any. 

Keep us posted on this one, but at the very least, make sure her house is in order first.

Best of luck!
Assisted Answer 10/1/2009 11:32:32 PM

You shouldnt feed chondros big meals!
Assisted Answer 10/2/2009 5:59:59 AM

I'm not a Chondro keeper, but I'll put this out here for some feedback...

I have to say, I'm kinda surprised I've seen a few recommendations of a ceramic heat emitter here... I have one, and I thought it dried out the enclosure just as much, if not more than an incandescent heat lamp did.  Any thoughts guys?

Aside from that, I'll totally back Aaron's advice that you should:
     get a temp gun – I have a PE-2, I love it  [ http://www.proexotics.com/store/product.php?productid=16212 ]
     use a thermostat
     get her checked/treat her for parasites (if she can't hold down water, temps are NOT he only issue you're facing here!)

I'll also add that if you don't have a humidity sensor that you have much faith in, there are many available.  Fluker's makes a cute little digital temp & humidity sensor [ http://www.flukerfarms.com/pressrelease-digitalhygro.aspx ].  I have 2 and I love 'em!  

Radioshack also has a ton of outdoor/indoor temp & humidity sensors, made so you can put one probe outside your window & it will tell you the conditions outside as well as insode your home...  hehe, little do they know what an awesome piece of reptile husbandry equipment they created!!

I wish you & Celia the best of luck!  Please keep us updated!!
Member Comment 10/2/2009 6:09:56 AM

...oh, and if she isn't holding water down, you need to avoid oral meds; not worth the stress for either of you

...so find a good vet who can set you up with something injectable & teach you what to do
Member Comment 10/2/2009 9:26:14 AM

Yeah, ceramic heat emitters are very spongelike with respect to humidity, but there are few choices when it comes to dark, nighttime heat in the enclosure / setup. For immediate nighttime heat, this is the quickest option.

Although my first chondro clutch ever was in a cage with a c.e.h. Along with the maternal incubation. And the 8 healthy babies. It just requires more attention.
Assisted Answer 10/2/2009 4:11:05 PM


I sent u an email.

Aaron has some great advice. 
Make sure to keep the humidity up to avoid dehydration due to the lack of drinking at this time.

The bedding I recommend is cypress mulch it really keeps the humidity up and is fantastic to keep clean and nice.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Author Comment 10/2/2009 8:51:04 PM

wellll today we had a few ideas with your guys' help, we decided to build her a new enclosure, went to walmart and bought a 27 quart clear plastic bin, with a fish tank air pump to go in the bowl of water to contribute to some extra humidity, then stopped over at petsmart for some coconut substrate blocks and a humidity/temp gauge,,,theeennn over to home depot for a couple pvc pipes for a perch. we put it all together with a heat pad under the bin and so far she seems happy as a clam, finally a little more active, drinking lots of the water, and exploring her new home. humidity it currently at a steady 78% and temperature at a perfect 85 degrees. shes got plenty of room plenty of moisture and is lookin alot better..thank you to everyone for the help! we will post photos of her new setup shortly if youre interested!

- j & k
Assisted Answer 10/3/2009 5:09:05 PM

Like Aaron said, give it a few weeks and try feeding it something small.  If it keeps it down for at least a week, it should be fine but continue feeding smaller prey a couple weeks a part for the next few feedings.  After that, go back to normal feedings but don't over feed even if it appears hungry.  If it does not keep the food down after the next attempt, its time for the vet.  A fecal might give the vet an idea as to what to treat it with but by then it probably won't have much fecal material available to test.  I would treat with both fagyl and panacur.  I have had a similiar situation and it responded well to these meds.  If treatment is in its future, I would suggest returning here or visiting MVF to verify the correct dosage as some vets seem to "pull it out of their @ss".  Should you choose to do this, you will need the weight of the animal and concentration of the meds.  You should also consider tube feeding the meds which obviously will require a second set of hands.  Good luck with it!

Member Comment 10/10/2009 12:12:47 AM

Sony Raju
well how is the animal now?
Author Comment 10/13/2009 8:14:02 PM

She didn't make it...passed away a few days ago... :(
Member Comment 10/13/2009 10:29:43 PM

Sorry to hear that... :(
Member Comment 10/13/2009 11:14:31 PM

I am so sorry :(
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