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Q:
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Chondro Setup?
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In Relation To:
Aphelion
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hey everyone,
just bought a handsome adult gtp at the pomona show, hes pretty feisty and has some capture scars,
anyways, just wanted some suggestions as to keeping humidity and temp up.
currently set up in a plastic tub, with two heat pads underneath, temp averaging at 75 degrees all day and night and humidity averaging at 70%
we dont have any lighting for him, not sure if its all that necessary..
could use all the help i can!
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 2:21:11 AM
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krackerdactyl
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I give him some light/heat during the day. On the opposite side where the temp gauge is, it reaches 80deg. That's where aphelion seems to sit. He was under the heat when I first set it up. And he moved away from it.
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 8:26:22 AM
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vonnick52
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Here: I did it for you, took me all of 1.25 seconds.
http://finegtps.com/basic_care_sheets.php
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 8:43:22 AM
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vonnick52
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The plastic tub is going to be hard to maintain good heat in if your room temps are low or fluctuating. Best bet for success is a melamine or pvc cage with a heat panel in it. I've tried keeping them on all sorts of different stuff and that has become the "only" way for me to do it for chondros. Being that your animal is an import, you need to focus on hydration and getting the animal to feel secure in its environment, then get fecals in. Just after a animal comes into country is not a good time to experiment with caging, or else you're going to be at the vet with a bill that probably costs at least half of what you paid for the import.
A low wattage heat dome might work "for now" but you really need to get a thermostat (proportional if you have the extra dough) and do it right. Belly heat isn't very effective for chondros because if they're on the ground its only for brief periods of time, they're sick, or they're dead. You have to get the air temps up near 90 on the warm side. I've killed my share of animals by trying to halfass it....and it really sucks.
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 9:53:26 AM
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 11:19:07 AM
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jeremyk
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i keep them the same as my jungles....i would stick with a tub. u can get some real nice ones at any resteraunt supply. cut out a square in the lid mount a RHP in there with a couple of bolts and ... wha la. insta chondro cage... keep the temps in the LOW 80s little warmer under the RHP dont keep it wet or it will die.. check out that link posted above
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 11:25:46 AM
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gfx
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Are you getting those readings with a temp gun? If not, that should be your first purchase.
Those cool temps and that level of humidity will likley cause an RI so you'll want to get this problem taken care of ASAP. I use RHPs exclusively, I'm not exactly sure what folks use to raise the temperature in plastic tubs other than more heat tape. At the very least, put a space heater in that room and get the ambient temperature up until you can get something better.
Since you bought your snake at a show, I'd suggest having a few fecals run, especially since your snake is scarred up. Its probably not a WC snake, but it may be a farmed animal or one who's spent way too long with brokers. It looks like a biak type, its going to be "feisty". If you want a chondro you can handle, buy your next one from a breeder.
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Member Comment
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1/12/2010 12:58:31 PM
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Aimee
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http://www.finegtps.com/basic_care_sheets.php
and I'd HIGHLY recommend picking up Maxwell's book. I have heard a ridiculous amount of good things about the book from a number of people who really know their gtps
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 12:35:14 AM
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masterfulpoopsie
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Books are your friend, Gregs a hell of a resource, Imported animals are never easy.
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 6:04:59 AM
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bsharrah
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http://www.reptilechannel.com/care-sheets/green-tree-python.aspx
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 6:41:49 AM
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krackerdactyl
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We understand all the care sheets. Have looked at quite a few of them. The main thing is we want to know YOUR personal experiences. What do YOU use for their enclosure? How do YOU keep their humidity n temp up? Any difficulities YOU may have ran into? There are many different experiences and things that may not have worked out all too well even following a care sheet. Throwing us to a care sheet can only help so much.
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 6:48:53 AM
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krackerdactyl
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Btw. Temps are up during day to 85-90. He doesn't stay wet all day. Humidity goes high. And drops. And stays decent majority of the time. He may have been an import, but the previous owner had him for a few years. He said he wasn't interested in the females. This being the first year he tried breeding him, but he was just tryng to see if he could sell them, cuz he wasn't too into the chondro breeding. He had a couple gorgeous females as well. And said he sold all the babies n the other male awhile back. However, one of the females appeared gravid, so copulation could've happened, and he just didn't witness. We walked away, and he sold the female to a customer that was standing next to us when we were there.
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Assisted Answer
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1/13/2010 8:58:59 AM
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vonnick52
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Humidity- Use mulch, use moss, use large water bowls, anything that will hold water and not mold. The more "wet" surface area you have, the more evaporation happens= the more water in the air= higher humidity. Keep in mind the humidity needs to cycle, like it would in the jungle. Heavy rain for a couple hours a day, then it dries out....so 90-100% humidity and then it dries out some over the next 18-24 hours. This drying out period is required to break the fungal life cycles that can start in very moist and warm environments. The amount and size of holes in your plastic tub is going affect how quickly it dries out, and it may take some experimentation....which is what you're supposed to do before you bring an animal home to throw in it.
Temps- thermostat and radiant heat panel, a real cage, or make a "rack" for the tub he's in so it helps insulate and hold in the heat. If you don't want/can't at the moment build/buy a cage for him, I would try to put the tub somewhere where the ambient temp is relatively stable. That plastic crap just doesn't hold heat worth a damn unless there is wood or something around it. I have a 3'x2'x20" melamine cage that I built that is heated with a 40 watt Reptile Basics heat panel, and it doesn't even run that much. (Total cost, including heat and "on/off" style thermostat, ~$150, and the 12 pack I bought to entice my buddy over to help me build cages that day.) If I was using a ceramic heat emitter and had a partial screen top....I bet I'd be using 250+ watts to heat it, and it'd be running 24/7. Heat panels are the way, the truth, and the light, when it comes to chondros. I've also seen people use heat panels inside plastic tubs with success, but as the temps start fluctuating in the house, it becomes a headache.
Julie is right on about the temp gun, they are invaluable in a variety of applications.
MVF is a good resource for chondros as well, there are bunches of posts with different ideas for caging and whatnot, you just gotta do some searching.
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 9:13:18 AM
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Assisted Answer
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1/13/2010 11:25:28 AM
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WhiteHillReptile
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rule #1 to keeping chondros:
dont over think it. there are 100 ways to do it and none of them are wrong. do what works for you so that 1) the snake perches. 2) the snake eats. 3) the snake sheds correctly. if these 3 things are in line, most everything else will fall into place.
rule #2 to keeping chondros:
when in doubt....refer to rule number one.
look around on mvf and the kingsnake.com forms and find pictures of rico walders set up. hes the man when it comes to chondros and he doesnt overcomplicate things.
the reason people are scared to keep chondros and why breeders have a tough time convincing people this is because of the stigma attached that these animals are SO difficult to keep. it simply is not true. are they more difficult than a ball python....sure. are they more difficult to produce live neonates from....sure. but is it hard to get an adult to thrive, not in the slightest.
oh, and quit poking, proding, moving, screwing, tinkering, and tweaking the setup. let him be, keep him hydrated, keep him warm and dont put food in his face every day. give him 3 weeks to settle down and feel comfortable, hes a fiesty biak....he will eat and a couple of weeks going by will do him some good. i have a 600 gram male that goes off food for 5 months at a time and only eats every 6 weeks when he is eating. no worries on food mate.
FWIW
Tre'
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 11:31:06 AM
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krackerdactyl
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Thanks for that. I was getting a little aggravated.
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Accepted Answer
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1/13/2010 12:51:38 PM
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gfx
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I keep my adults in Jim Scharphorn cages with cypress and moss for substrate. To keep the humidity up, I put a plastic shoe box filled with water in the back of the cage. I also keep a bowl of water in there. About once a week or so I dump the water onto the cage floor and give a fresh bowl. In the winter I may dump the bowl more often, in the summer I may only dump half of it since I live in a high humidity area. These cages do not need to be wet, that's where you'll cause problems. 70% humidity is plenty humid enough, though average cage temp of 75 is not warm enough. My guys like to keep themselves at 83. I'm not sure what your temps are because in one post you've mentioned 75 degrees, in the other you you've mentioned 85-90. Adult chondros will tolerate a wide variety of conditions, though 75 and wet will cause an RI in many species so keep in mind that lower temps and higher humidity is not the best plan. 85-90 would be too warm for some chondros, your snake will tell you if it is because he will ground himself.
Tre' is dead on when he says to not overthink things. My humidity tends to range from 40%-80% +/- probably 10%. I've learned to not try to micromanage the humidity for these or the rainbow boas. If I was to try to keep a target humidity, it'd be about 65% I guess. I have a few chondros who will play in their water bins and I suspect they all get in them from time to time so they control their own humidity needs. I'd rather the enclosure be a little dry and let them control their hydration needs than have it too wet because bacteria does love a wet environment.
I always set a new chondro up and just leave it totally alone for awhile. I'll offer food the first day because a lot of picky animals will tend to eat right away, but if they dont, I leave them be for a few weeks. Chondros can take several weeks to settle in and relax, I've got one that took a few months. If he defecates, take it to the vet and have a fecal done. I don't particularly mind an import, but I am aware that they tend to have parasites, even if they were in someone else's collection for a few years. Sometimes parasites just hang out in the body and stress brings them to life. Life change is stress for a chondro and just the apparently benign transition to your house could be enough to fire up a parasite load. Running a few fecals on a new snake is nothing against an import, its just routine quarantine procedure. Some folks want to cut corners when they buy from a fellow hobbiest, but trust me, you can bring plenty of crap into your collection, even from the best known of people. The chondro community bought that lesson in a big way a few months ago.
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Member Comment
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1/13/2010 1:06:35 PM
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WhiteHillReptile
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yeah....i guess rules v1.1 would be dont forget to quarantine. and expensive lesson indeed.
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Member Comment
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1/18/2010 9:28:37 PM
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zachrfields
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Your enclosure should be kept around 10 degrees warmer than your keeping it, I keep all mine at around 85 degree f. You humidity is straight
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Member Comment
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1/19/2010 11:48:57 PM
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Golden Gate Geckos
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I also use Jim Sharphorn cages. I also know a lot of people who use tubs. My only suggestion would be to use the heat pad(s) on the side one of the short ends of the tub with a pvc pipe running lengthwise so the snake can thermoregulate. Keep the warm end ar around 88-90 and normal room temperature at the other. If there is a little condensation in the tub, there is no need to mist or add additional moisture.
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Member Comment
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1/20/2010 12:28:54 PM
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Member Comment
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1/21/2010 9:00:06 AM
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Acheron_08
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the compelet chondro is an awsome book!! i bought it too! i don't know a chondor but i used that info maxwell put in his book on my carpets!
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Member Comment
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1/23/2010 9:03:43 PM
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Jungledoc
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one thing people did not mention yet about chondros, is that your supposed to read the book first, set up your system for a week or so, and THEN get the chondro, or you may end up with a dead chondro...since you got this up "second morelia, hopefully we have better luck with this tough guy" i'd though you would know about that
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Member Comment
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1/23/2010 10:03:59 PM
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krackerdactyl
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Funny. Cuz someone HAD mentioned that. Beyond anything, this is for ADVICE not to be a jerk. Go somewhere else to be a dick.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 6:28:38 AM
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Jungledoc
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ya the book was mentioned, the order was not, and im just coming back to need for being a responsible pet owner...and if i wanted to be a dick i could have ripped you up fir getting a "wild cought GTP"
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 6:56:07 AM
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krackerdactyl
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Actually it was. Perhaps you can't read? Cuz you obviously can't spell. "Cought". What, don't even know how to use spell check? Go be a "responsible pet owner". You're looking quite sad.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 6:57:39 AM
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 7:29:01 AM
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bsharrah
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Actually Kristal, although Jungledocs response came off a bit obnoxious, you are not looking real good either here. What's up with all the aggression?
Jungledoc - The OP was only asking to hear how others maintain their chondros. There was nothing to indicate they didn't do the research first. I have been keeping chondros for about 5 years now and still like to hear how others do it because there is no one right way. The "book" referenced here is a good source of information but it is not THE source. I would never suggest it "should" be read before acquiring a chondro. Why should anyone get ripped for buying WC? I agree there are more risks involved but WC animals need homes too. If someone asked which one to buy WC or CB, then I think most would say CB; however, stating what you think someone "should" have done after the fact is rarely taken well. Nobody likes a Monday morning quarterback. Just my opinion.
Can we all get back to playing nice now?
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 7:42:18 AM
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krackerdactyl
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I know how I was coming off. It seems the only way to get through to people sometimes. Considering I've stated what we asked of this blog. Especially since many of those that have responded to this blog, responded so negatively, like it was our sole purpose to buy a chondro to kill it slowly. We knew what we were getting into. And we've learned a lot. We had different issues and circumstances to how our first chondro passed. However, I should not have to state anything, just to prove to some that we aren't noobs. I understand how its easy to get worked up over knowing someone CAN'T care for a reptile. But some people forget this is a forum, and many come here just for advice to make things better. Or hopefully get some information on things are't particularly stated in BOOKS. Not to be put down for anything. Id understand if the snake was withering away and lying on the floor, due to neglect.
I just don't understand why someone has to respond to a simple question with such rudeness.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 7:44:32 AM
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krackerdactyl
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And it just seems to get increasingly worse on this website.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 7:58:33 AM
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bsharrah
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Its all web sites. Because iHerp is newer, its just taking a little more time to catch up.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 8:10:10 AM
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krackerdactyl
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I hope so. Its the only one I really go to anymore. Because I know there are many people on here that know what it takes. And everyone has their own way.
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Member Comment
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1/24/2010 11:13:26 AM
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Jungledoc
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typos are typos, you obviously got the point. And my initial response was no "meaner" or "aggressive" than many others posted on various chondro boards in response to a story like yours...
and na I dunt speli check, its a hirp massage bord nut a doctorate
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Member Comment
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1/25/2010 1:38:07 PM
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