iHerp Answers: Rodents vs Natural Variety Diet

iHerp Answers!

Problem?

Search Create an Account, It's Free!

Home > iHerp Answers > Rodents vs Natural Variety Diet

Rodents vs Natural Variety Diet

Posted By:

Leiren

I'm just curious,is feeding species of boas,python,colubrids a strict diet of just rodents really as healthy as its made out to be considering in the wild they eat assorted things such as fish,birds,amphibians,etc.

I mean like all animals in the animal kingdom,including us,we all get certain supplements/vitamins from different food items that we eat. I mean certain factors like fatty liver diease and even shortened life spans pop into mind. So wouldn't it be that a diet of variety food items,including ones natural prey, is healthier than just a diet of rodents only? Is our snakes really getting all that they need in their diet,or are we just feeding them to whats convenient to us?


Points:	100
Topics:	General Health , Feeding
Tags:	Diet, Feeders, Feeding, Health
Administrative:	Show/Hide

Member Comment

2/14/2010 11:38:14 AM

FyreFocks

Considering that most herps in the wild are leaner than the animals we keep in captivity, i would lean towards yes. But it would be very hard for most people to recreate their wild diet in captivity. And even if you are able to find everything that your snake/lizard/gecko/frog/turtle might eat in the wild, you run the risk of giving your animal parasites. The nice thing about rodents is that we know where they came from and we know they wont endanger our animals. And its cheaper.

Assisted Answer

2/14/2010 1:05:38 PM

vonnick52

My experience with my big female dum (she was proven when I acquired her):

Two seasons ago, I acquired her and she was being "pumped up for breeding" by feeding her large rats every 7 days on the dot. I continued with that, she continued to breed, went through the process had 4 live neos and a few slugs, the neos were small, and difficult to start feeding. This was my first breeding though, so the feeding issues could definitely be attributed to my lack of experience.

Leading up to this past season, I fed her inconsistently on no specific schedule or diet. Sometimes she got a plate full of jumbo mice, sometimes she got a few small rats, sometimes a jumbo so on and so on. Threw some rabbits in there for good measure. The time between feedings would vary from 1 week to 25-30 days. She bred and did her thing again, almost on an identical schedule to last year, and she had 15 live neos, and one still born. Almost all of the neos were over 100 grams at birth and a large percentage of them began feeding right off the bat.
It's not very scientific by any means, but I feel that the varied diet and lack of overfeeding definitely benefited my girl in this situation. I'm of the opinion that about 98% of snakes are overfed in captivity and that it's more detrimental to overfeed than underfeed (without going to extremes of course).

Nate brings up a good point about the risks of parasites being transmitted, but that could be avoided if the food items were all captive bred....though perhaps not very cost effective.

Bottom line: In my opinion, we are lazy and are feeding them whatever's most convenient and cheap to us, providing it gets the job done to the bare minimum....but that's what America's all about right?

Assisted Answer

2/14/2010 1:21:20 PM

natsamjosh

I absolutely agree with you, my personal prefercence is to try to simulate the wild diet of the species of snakes I have. It's very inconvenient and is expensive, but that's just my presonal preference. Feeding only farm-raised rats/mice to animals that have evolved for millions of years to eat a variety of lower fat/higher protein/higher cacium prety items could be like a human going to McDonald's every day to eat. But the reality is that the "convenience factor" can't be ignored. To sum it up in a nutshell, if there were some magical mandate that people can only own snakes if they simulated wild diets, there would be few or no snakes in captivity and no market for them, and I probably wouldn't have been able to obtain any of my snakes. Besides, maybe the snakes are happier eating at McDonalds every day, even if it isn't that healthy for them :)
So it all comes down to personal preferences and personal circumstances, imo.

So I agree with Nate, except for one very minor nit-pick.. Feeding rodents is not without risk, either. Everything has a risk. While the risk either way is small and neither rally concerns me, I think I'd feel safer with my anoles that I freeze myself than with the already frozen mice I buy from the store or over the internet. :)

Great topic, btw.

Author Comment

2/14/2010 3:26:15 PM

Leiren

Nate,rodents cant carry parasites just as much as any other prey item you are willing to give a animal,captive bred or not,im not talking about going out in the wild and trying to find these food items and recreate their natural diet. I just don't see feeding your snake 3 different food items its entire life (that are already extremly closely related and pretty much the same thing) will benefit a snake that was perhaps born to have the job of keeping down a certain type of bird population,or like hognoses being basically designed to keep down certain american amphibians basically.

It's not so much that rodents are like a human going to Macdonalds for years,even if something is healthy if its all you eat then it's still not really going to do anything for you "health" wise. lolz vegan anyone?

Member Comment

2/14/2010 3:40:03 PM

t0neg0d

You could order rats, quail, guineas, rabbits, lizards and mix it up a bit!

But, seeing as most captive reptiles that are properly cared for FAR outlive wild specimens (and most are on a strict rodent diet)... I doubt it would make a difference. Though, trying different types of food can have its advantages with picky eaters--if you find something they take to more than rodents.

Member Comment

2/14/2010 6:37:54 PM

danicat83

I cannot bring myself to feed a snake another reptile, but all of the non-ball pythons that I have owned have gotten a bit of variety because I thought they would like it. For example my boa got mainly rats, with some mice, hamsters, chicks, and quail for variety. My cornsnakes really enjoyed their chick and quail treats, and garter snakes were fed something different everytime, like slugs, worms, pinky mice, small frogs and minnows. I also rarely feed my snakes once a week. Too many snakes are fat. The vet always says my animals are healthy, so feeding less than average seems fine. Babies however are offered food often, I just think they need the opportunity to eat more when they are growing, or when they are pregnant too. Now ball pythons on the other hand I fear offering variety to. Mine have always been able to switch easily to frozen thawed rats, but I have heard horror stories of picky eaters. I don't feed on a schedule though, even for ball pythons. I noticed mine skipping meals too often when it was on a schedule. She is much more active and willing to eat, and is still maintaining a perfect weight when she eats every 2 weeks to a month. So there is my two cents. Feeding variety is great, feeding less is great, but ball pythons scare me with variety for some reason.

Member Comment

2/14/2010 7:11:36 PM

tmth

Depending on the size of the snake, they get mice and rats, quail and rats, and rabbits if they're big enough. All mixed up. Sometimes guinea pigs too.. I don't have an exact schedule and sometimes I like to let them wait a bit before getting a meal- I think variety is a good thing in all animals, and my dog gets quite a few different types of meat in his meals.
If other species were easier to get I'd like to feed them more variety.

Accepted Answer

2/15/2010 2:23:42 PM

Geegmasta

I'm going to refer back to ToneGod on this one. Captive specimens FAR exceed lifespans of those animals from the wild. It's due to a variety of things, obviously no predation, a complete lack (hopefully) of endo and exo parasites, and a lack of disease (again, all depending on husbandry). Snakes for the most part are oppurtunistic predators, they will take what they can overpower and ingest. They also don't require a complex amount of vitamins and minerals as say, a human does...or most higher mammals. So comparing a mammal to a reptile in terms of diet necessity isn't very sound. These are animals that fill very specific niches that may only offer 1 or 2 different types of prey to begin with, for example, blindsnakes feeding primarily on small worms or soft bodied inverts, or pipesnakes that eat only amphisbaenians or snakes smaller than themselves (again, probably other blindsnakes with a limited diet), or seasnakes eating fish. Pythons, some boas and pit-vipers all developed heat-sensing organs to locate, specifically, homeothermic prey (though they will sometimes take a toad or frog, they have evolved to feed upon rodents/birds primarily). One really cool example, is Plains Slender Blindsnake, that is sometimes found in owl nests (though owls will predate upon them)...what they do is they eat all the exoparasites in the nest and on the fledglings that would normally cause infection, anaemia and death in said fledglings.

Some snakes can convert over like the Hognose snakes for example...they eat frogs and toads in the wild, yet in captivity can be switched over to mice. I think the biggest dilemma with that is fur. Their digestive tracts are not made to process a lot of fuzzy rodents, but they can handle it. They seem to be an exception, compared to a Blackheaded python that will die in a couple years from, most likely, fatty liver disease, if fed a diet of just rats (which are fatty animals to begin with). They are snakes that eat lizards, other snakes and even shrimp.

Another point is that these farm raised rodents are fed very healthy diets so they can be packed full of nutrients. This includes quails, rabbits and chicks/chickens as well. They pretty much have the essentials that your snake is going to need (and if you don't feel they do, there's plenty of supplements out there). And you can't make a rat grow any faster than what its body is made for...trust me, I see it every day with my own...it still takes 7-9 months to make a jumbo/colossal rat. With that, and other earlier points I mentioned (and coupled with good husbandry) your snake will live long and healthy; granted you don't cram it in some little tub and never handle it so it gets no exercise or can't thermoregulate. It is a convenience to get rats easily now, but we are also buying healthy prey items for our animals too.

I'd also like to say, that for Nick's success with his Dumerils, the sporadic feedings are definitely a plus. Boas fair much better on less feedings than pythons do. There's the good 'ol saying that Vince Russo uses, "Boas grow more when you DON'T feed them." That's why a lot of people may find their boas regurging a lot when heavily fed. I'm not saying all boas will do this, but it seems to be the observed norm. But congrats on the successful breedings none-the-less my man.

Anyway, my point is that feeding what is easily available: mice/rats/rabbits/chickens/quails isn't bad, granted the rest of the animal's husbandry is in order. I hope my long-ass response helps a bit ;)

Member Comment

2/15/2010 3:10:01 PM

natsamjosh

Great discussion, but I think several separate issues are getting mixed together.   I am in total agreement that most snake owners err on the side of overfeeding. I prefer to err on the side of "underfeeding", because again, I don't believe snakes, especially larger boids, eat every week or so.

As far as what is fed, it depends on the individual species.   In the wild, snakes like hognoses and indigos eat diets that probably consist of 90% to 100% reptile, amphibian and/or fish prey.   This means that their bodies have evolved for millions of years to eat a diet that is much higher in protein, much higher in calcium and
much lower in fat than rats and mice. So all else being equal (husbandry, exercise), I prefer to simulate the wild diet.   In other words, if I feed my indigo rats all the time, yes, he might live longer than the average wild indigo, but that's not really the issue. I want him to live longer than the average *captive* indigo.   I want him around as long as possible. :)

To be honest, it's mainly the fat content I'm concerned with. Like Geegmasta said, supplements can be used to add nutrients that are lacking in the food items. (I sprinkle calcium supplement on the rabbit pinkies I feed my indigo.) But you can't take the fat OUT of food items. :)

Again, I'm not dissing anyone, everyone has their own situation, opinion and preferences, and this is all my opinion. I obviously haven't done 20 years worth of controlled studies to prove anything. :)

Member Comment

2/24/2010 6:46:38 PM

Redic Retics

Like Dan pointed out it depends on the husbandry and the type of snake. Retics primarily live off large mamals in the wild so its not a big deal for them, but it is for a kingsnake. The question is a bigger deal for monitors, which literally eat anything smaller then them. Its hard to replicate what any montior eats in the wild, so i try my best but i refuse to feed them other reptiles and scorpions.

However, LLL does sell feeder snakes and lizards to give you the option if you did have blackheads or kingsnakes. i dont know much about the tree boas but i assume they eat foul in the wild so their diet could probably be easily replicated in capitivity.

I would say overfeeding is a larger issue and it depends on the responsibilty of the owner.

You are not logged in. If you would like to participate (it's free!), you must log in, or Become a Member!