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Q: What kind of corn morph?
Posted By:

Beatric

Hey what kind of corn morph does donny look like, i cant figure it out



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Points: 100
Topics: Genetics
Tags: Cornsnake, Morph
Species: Other Colubrids > Other Colubrids > Elaphe guttata guttata
Administrative: Show/Hide
Member Comment 6/27/2010 1:36:20 AM

bondo
If the color is accurate he looks like a creamsicle to me.
 
Member Comment 6/27/2010 2:11:01 AM

loving_exotics
looks like a hypo or a creamsickle to me, its either a orange looking hypo or a less white creamsicle lol
 
Accepted Answer 6/27/2010 3:13:09 AM

Floof
He is an Amelanistic (also commonly called albino). Notice how he is completely lacking in black pigment, including in his eyes. A hypo's black pigment would merely be reduced--hence hypo, or "reduced," melanism (black pigment).

He does have a "Creamsicle" appearance, as has been mentioned, but that's neither here nor there unless you know his background (whether mom or dad was a Creamsicle/Rootbeer/hybrid) and/or intend to breed. Creamsicles are hybrids... Specifically, Corn x Emory's Rat snake hybrids presenting the Amelanism gene. "Normal" Corn x Emory hybrids are called "Rootbeer" corns.
 
Member Comment 6/27/2010 9:15:17 AM

FyreFocks
Creamsicle is in there somewhere, but who cares. Its a nice looking snake.
 
Member Comment 6/27/2010 2:28:47 PM

Katie M

is it possible he's a sunglow? Shria was given to me as a sunglow, and looks just like Donny
 
Member Comment 6/27/2010 7:10:51 PM

FyreFocks
Sunglows lack white, which is what they are bred for.

The reason i think creamsicle exists is because this snake is very orange, with almost no red whatsoever. But like i said, it doesnt matter. Enjoy your new snake!
 
Member Comment 6/27/2010 10:46:17 PM

Floof
Like Nate said, Sunglow = no white borders, so this is by no means a Sunglow.

I agree with Nate.. It does have a very "Creamsicly" appearance. Also like he said, it doesn't matter... Unless you ever intend to breed and/or sell Donny, in which case you must label him and his offspring as probable hybrids (NOT pure corn).
 
Member Comment 6/28/2010 2:42:54 AM

loving_exotics
All hypomelanistic corn snakes I have seen have no black pigment and reducing the black can also mean getting rid of it completely. Also there is still a possibility of being a sunglow since there is hardly any white. A quote from a good friend of mine who is also a corn snake breeder is, "A selectively bred amelanistic snake with little or no white coloration." meaning there is the chance of being a sunglow just not a perfect one. With it being a hybrid normally there are signs of another snake species, my friend has a corn/king hybrid and it took tell I gave it a look over and had to pull up pictures and show him to finally believe me.
 
Author Comment 6/28/2010 1:01:28 PM

Beatric
hhhmmmmm wellll according to this http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://members.tripod.com/~Draybar/arwen28.jpg&imgrefurl=http://draybar.tripod.com/morphs.html&usg=__-kh3FKWjr7iZ5b-81dp7xf-vh1o=&h=480&w=640&sz=89&hl=en&start=13&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=s58uu_rZD35pgM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcreamsicle%2Bcorn%2Bsnake%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1 he is a creamsicle and most likely something else mixed in, i guess ill find out when i breed him.....now to find a female....
 
Member Comment 6/28/2010 1:43:49 PM

Floof
Loving, calling Donny a "sunglow" would be akin to calling it a Reverse Okeetee just because it has such a bright orange background. A "true" Sunglow shouldn't have a single speck of white; at most, no more than a few specks here and there on an adult snake--anything less doesn't deserve to be called a Sunglow, because, quite frankly, it isn't. Sunglows are Amelanistics bred to have NO white borders. Sure, there are animals from such "Sunglow" projects that possess borders, but they doesn't mean they're Sunglows. So, you tell me. If a "Sunglow" is bred not to have ANY white border whatsoever, what in the world makes a snake with white borders (reduced or otherwise) a Sunglow?

Here is a decent (but still not perfect) example of a Sunglow. Note how around the vast majority of the saddles, there isn't a single speck of white to be seen. In fact, a whopping 7 out of 40 or so saddles can be counted from this angle that do have specks of white. (image courtesy of Don Soderberg):


By that same token, "reduced" black doesn't mean "completely removed." Have you ever looked at the Hypos? None have brilliant red eyes like an Amelanistic. And they have darker coloration overall. And if they DO have borders, they tend to be sort of a grey, sometimes kind of a purple color. Not stark white. There are significant differences between an Amel and a Hypo.

And a Hypo. As you can see, the saddles are not near as light colored as an Amel's (yet not as dark as a normal's), because it still possesses some melanism. Likewise, there is some faded melanistic pigment existing in the borders, and the eyes are dark... FYI, a hypo's eyes can be "normal" colored or "ruby" colored, but not "red." (Image courtesy of Ian Bradley):


No offense, but you should learn how these genes work before you start spouting misinformation again.
 
Member Comment 6/28/2010 1:48:46 PM

Floof
Oh, and Beatric--hybridization can't be proven out through breeding. Unless you can track down his lineage and find uncontestable proof that he doesn't carry Emoryi blood, all you can do now is breed him as a "Creamsicle" (if you even breed him at all--which I would say don't, but, then, I'm a total purist when it comes to my snakes) and call it good.
 
Member Comment 6/28/2010 2:24:11 PM

loving_exotics
I must have just seen some weird hypo's then floof I have seen a few in person and all were orange with little or no black at all, I own a sunglow, absolutely no white, its colors are dark orange saddles and orange body it is on my iherp if you wish to see. Mine is a tangerine sunglow and has no red but is still a sunglow. There are too many mixed morphs with corn snakes now and days. The snake has a slight hint of another morph and people will go crazy and make their own name and claim it as a new morph. I still have a ways to go but I do know quite a bit about these snakes and learning more all the time. I honestly believe it is just a random mix that someone decided to try but still is a beautiful snake beatric.
 
Member Comment 6/28/2010 2:55:33 PM

Floof
Or mislabelled snakes that weren't actually Hypos. Maybe they were "Hypo Amels"--Amelanism disguises the Hypomelanism gene, so a Hypomelanistic also displaying Amelanistic would, visually, be an Amelanistic.

What do "mixed morphs" have to do with our discussion? We're talking about how to tell whether a Corn snake is a Sunglow, or whether it's even an Amelanistic or a Hypomelanistic... Not combo morphs... Which, ironically, your Tangerine Sunglow is a perfect example of your comment. "Tangerine" is little more than a word used by the seller to make the snake sound more special. Unless it's some random dealer's code for some kind of corn hybrid--you can never know sometimes. In any case, your Sunglow is a nice example of the morph and red coloration has nothing to do with whether or not a snake is a Sunglow. All the red coloration has to do with it is whether the snake may or may not be a hybrid and/or carrying the Caramel gene.

And from what knowledge you have displayed here, at the very least, you don't know a whole lot about their genetics. Cornsnakes.com is a great corn snake forum/resource if you want to test your knowledge against the people that know just about all there is to know about Corns.
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