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Q: Pure Irian Jaya Female Loan?
Posted By:

Jeremys reptiles

In Relation To:

[75% IJ JAG MALE "Bullwinkle clutch"!]
I'm looking for a Pure Irian Jaya female Loan, A breedable Female to breed with my 75% Irian Jaya Jaguar. In return I'm offering up 1 of the 87.5% IJ Jag babies (price: $500-$800) and 1 Sibling! And your Female back! Or If you just want to sell me the female I'm also looking to buy one for a decent price! Thanks for reading, Jeremy
Points: 50
Topics: Egg Laying , Incubation , Genetics
Species: Pythons > Morelia > Morelia spilota ssp
Administrative: Show/Hide
Member Comment 9/4/2010 10:44:19 AM

FyreFocks
Im going to be honest with you, thats a crappy deal.

Most breeding loans, that ive seen, consist of 50/50 splits, or 60/40, but usually its no more skewed to one way or the other. The person doing the work, or the person whose animal has the more desired traits, gets the higher percentage. You, however, are talking about giving up what could amount to only about 20% of the clutch. Its not gonna happen. No one is that not smart.

Also, are you prepared for any possible vet costs? What if this loaner dies in your care? You prepared for that?
 
Author Comment 9/4/2010 10:48:43 AM

Jeremys reptiles
The animal won't die in my Care.. Unless it had past health problems and I think I'm offering a great deal considering a breeder pure IJ female won't go for more then $400 and I'm giving about $600+ in babies and the loaner female back!
 
Member Comment 9/4/2010 10:52:35 AM

FyreFocks
But youd have ZERO babies without said female. The point is, the female is HALF the pair, so why would you only give up 2 babies?

Talk to a chondro breeder about how they do their loans. The value of the babies doesnt really factor in, so far as i can tell, when determining percentage splits.
 
Author Comment 9/4/2010 11:01:01 AM

Jeremys reptiles
.... I'm not going to 50/50 when that 50% can be upwards of $3,000.. And I can buy around 7 females for that... I Understand it's not a great deal but it's better than nothing ? It's an easy gain for no work at all, I'll change this and give up half of all the siblings and 1/3rd of the jaguars how about that?
 
Accepted Answer 9/4/2010 11:15:49 AM

aaron
Breeding loans typically do not work that way, and the breeding loans that are driven by money almost always end up in failure. Read the last part of that sentence again. And again. And again and again and again.

The standard breeding loan deal when you have a hot male looking for ovaries is a 50/50 split, end of discussion.

The reason for this is because males can breed to multiple females, for many, MANY successive years. They have many more reproductive cycles than females do. Females can lay maybe 4 clutches in a lifetime, and they start to get burned out (in Chondros anyway... and my presumption is that Carpets are more like Chondros than Double Clutchin' Corns).

So, the VALUE in the female that you're getting is that you are eating up 25% of their reproductive life. And the owner of the female is more than entitled to share in it equally. Period. I don't care how hot the male is. Unless this is the first Pied carpet, it's 50/50.

Never, EVER say the animal won't die in my care. I've had this happen. And things end up being very bad for both parties involved.

You're looking at this way too financially. If money is your motivation, then you need to get your own female and not deal with someone else. When you are talking about head counts and how much they bring to justify the loan, trust me, you are going to end up in a bad situation. What happens when you have a clutch and only hatch out three? 

Here's what I would recommend:

1.) Determine ahead of time what happens if the animal dies in transit either way
2.) Determine ahead of time what happens if the animal dies in your care
3.) Determine ahead of time what happens if the animal becomes sick and who pays vet bills
4.) Pick one of you to "go first" in the order if you're fortunate enough to have a viable, hatched clutch
5.) Alternate picks. All the good ones get eaten up first, and that's fine

That's the base agreement you should have. You need to consider every possible option when dealing with loans. Sadly, I didn't and I've paid for it.

Breeding loans that start with dollar signs, or are not explicitly contractually clear, end in disappointment more times than not. And that stuff ends up going public (or at least behind the scenes trash talk) and ruining reputations and future projects.
 
Member Comment 9/4/2010 2:19:55 PM

exoticcritterss

i saw that you said that the animal would NOT die in your care, how would you know this, what if the female got egg bound, if you were able to save her, that snake would never be bred again, i do agree with nate and aaron, you can not put $$$$ before the animals, and if someone does loan you out one it would have to be a 50/50 deal, never have i heard of someone loaning out a female to breed for 2 babies, i can see the other way around "kinda" if you have the female and was looking for a male,, im not trying to be rude or mean, just saying that you will not find a breeder that will loan a female out for 2 babies, and like aaron said, you should never say that the animal on loan will NOT die, because you never know what could happen.
 
Member Comment 9/6/2010 7:42:43 PM

Aimee
as a small-time IJ breeder, I'd certainly never loan any of my girls under those vague terms and with such a small payout. the female is also the snake most at risk from the breeding process; the stress of producing eggs is enormously hard on a female snake, even is she comes out like a champ and all the eggs hatch properly. and your male is pretty, yes...but what's his lineage? and what sort of lineage do you expect from a potential breedable female? I agree with everything Aaron said; it doesn't seem as though all eventualities have been considered.
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