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Q:
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Whats your thoughts on Rack setups for Ball pythons?
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Ok so I have a kind of small apt....I have 4 tanks set up right now in my tiny apt, there is a guy and gal that make rack systems around where I live......I am going to be breeding and I just wonder if the racks are two small or if the ball's will be ok in there or is it better for them to have a big ol tank.....What do u guys think??
OO OOOO and on a good note, Hope my big albino het female finally ATE!!!! :)
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Accepted Answer
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9/28/2010 12:35:38 PM
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 12:52:16 PM
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 1:02:21 PM
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kuroangales
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As long as you get a rack with a tub that's big enough, they are a very good idea. Plus, if it has heat, you can plug it in to one thermostat and relax.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 1:52:45 PM
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crazysnakelady
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Ball pythons are lazy; they don't need a ton of space. Racks are great for them. They are space savers as well, so great for small living space!
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 1:59:16 PM
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RainDrops
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Racks are ok if you don't care about watching the animal, but they definitely need to be big enough. Ball pythons aren't that lazy. My male's in a tank and he regularly gets out and climbs all over his branches. Maybe if they've been kept in a rack their whole life they don't feel the urge to climb, but naturally they will if you give them a chance. So I'd just give them larger tubs that will allow them some room to roam and not be fat lumps all the time. Personally I hate not being able to view my animals without foggy obstruction, but that's just me.
Alternatively to racks you could get some good stackable cages.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 2:00:17 PM
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shellboa
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All 67 of my ballpythons are in racks. We built most of them ourselves from melamine and with either rubbermaid, sterilite or iris tubs. A word of advice if you do go with any rack system, buy enough extra tubs to fill your rack again. The tub manufacturers seem to take delight in changing the design just when all your tubs crack or break. I keep a few snakes in tanks, mostly males to seperate for the end of breeding or ones that are not done really growing into the custom enclosures we have.
Another great thing is vision/boaphile/animal plastics type caging. If you want to see your animals and yet still save on space you can get stackable cages from any of them. Spendy but worth it. Its a little harder to custom build something like that and still get good temp control.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 3:05:51 PM
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FyreFocks
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BP breeders love racks! They can cram many more BPs into their tiny, overstuffed facilities with rack systems. And who cares if you cant see them without opening the tub? They are only there to make you money anyway.
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Assisted Answer
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9/28/2010 3:30:17 PM
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abi21491
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Racks are awesome for BPs! I've found that my snakes are much happier and eat way better now that they are in racks. They feel more secure, it is easier to regulate the environmental conditions in them and it's very space efficient. Medium size balls can fit in a 32 qt just fine while large adults should be in 41qt/cb-70/v-70 tub racks.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 6:13:38 PM
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Katie M
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Nice slam there Nate! Maybe the breeders prefer the racks for their ball pythons because the racks seem to mimick a burrow situation, which is where a ball python would be in the wild anyway. All of my ball pythons are in rack systems, varying from 6 qt tubs as babies, to 41 qt tubs as adults. I use a variety of different sized hides from reptile basics as well as the combo hides from the Beanfarm. I've found that the ball pythons eat more consistently in racks then they do in glass, as well. So yes, I do think that racks are preferably for ball pythons, despite Nate's overglorified description
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 6:51:14 PM
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FyreFocks
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Look into your heart. You know it to be true. :)
Ive NEVER used a rack system for anything, and ive never tubbed a BP. In fact, i always kept them is hugely oversized cages. They do awesome! Even when keeping males together (can someone say hypocrisy?), i never had any problems. I hear the upsides. But maybe my issue is that ive never experienced the downsides that would lead me to use a rack system? Iunno..
And dont tell me that at least a fair amount of breeders dont use racks simply for the confining space. [DELETED]
There was a sentence there, in the deleted space, but it was another shot at BP breeders and i didnt want to still the pot anymore. I must be getting old...
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 7:17:16 PM
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Katie M
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you set up a make shift rack for your baby corns last year, if I remember right, with 6 qt tubs, and shelving. You said you didn't need more than that, because it was an instant rack. You're right, you've never tubbed a BP, because you've never owned a bp, just housesat them.
What part are you trying to insinuate the hypocrisy with? I don't cohabitate my animals, period. They are only together to breed, so you are clearly right with your statement when you say you've kept males together happy better then I have??? I'm confused.
I use the rack systems so that each snake can have the MOST amount of space in the room as possible, without having snakes all thoughtout the house. I house my snakes very well, and you know it, as do many others.
It doesn't have to be a right or wrong, people can do it however they want, but to blanket statement that we're all just shoving them into the smallest tub possible is amazing. I use my rack systems as a way to give each snake the most amount of space possible.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 9:51:46 PM
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FyreFocks
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The hypocrisy was on my part. And ive kept balls before, for long enough periods of time to consider myself a good judge.
No, no make shift rack for the babies. Brad and i never got around to it. But yes, i use tubs for baby corns.
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Member Comment
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9/28/2010 11:46:54 PM
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AAS
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Lots of entry-level rationalizations in this string. A cage is a cage, so no boasting allowed by any of us. Racks are at best tolerated by any snake. The actual research is inching the other direction.... enrichment, UVB, ample space for movement and such. Sorry, you'll need to provide more than personal opinion based on limited experience to convince me that any snake "loves" a small, poorly ventilated, ever dark enclosure; that your snakes are "doing great" if you haven't studied them under different conditions; that they feel more secure in a small enclosure rather than they would in a large enclosure with secure hides; that wild BPs spend the entirety of their lives in burrows, have no use for sunlight and have a territorial range of five square feet.
In the mean time, I'm going "bigger is better" and if that means fewer then so be it. I believe in many ways reptile hobbyists may be doing their best but not doing best for their animals.
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Author Comment
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9/29/2010 12:25:21 AM
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Don and Allens Balls
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Wow...so AAS is a herpetologist it apears? Or just likes to come off as one? AAS have you studied Ball's in their natural habitat? Where did you get your Degree? I hope u can pick up on the sarcasim cuz its hard to get that across while laughing and typing. Have a good one.
Thanks everyone for your OPINIONs, AAS I belive thats what they are......OPINIONS.
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 12:40:45 AM
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Miss Andrea
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Most of my ball pythons are much more willing to eat in a smaller tub. I do have 1 that is happier with more room. Adults don't seem to mind too much, and you won't need anything bigger than a cb70. They have plenty of room to roam unless you have a 3000+ gram female, which will be very fat and won't want to roam. All of my tubs are opaque plastic and get sunlight. I put hides in my racks because of this sunlight. The snakes use them too.
As for bigger is better, I've also used a glass aquarium for the to "stretch their legs", and EVERY snake I did that with went off food. I only put them in the larger tub for 1-2 hours. All of which they were crawling around and seemed happy. Which leads me to believe we either don't know what they want or the snakes are masochist.
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 7:54:31 AM
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AAS
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No no, not a herpetologist and didn't mean to get under anyone's skin, my apologies, but I am in a field where opinions are not accepted without a strong foundation of evidence based knowledge first, experience second. Believe me, I've endured some serious illness in my collection, lost wonderful animals, and learned to be very skeptical of hobbyist opinions on husbandry. Very skeptical. I wouldn't do the research, but I'm honest enough to know when I don't know, and won't allow myself to make excuses, rationalizations or spurious justifications for what might be sub-optimal care. I mean there's nobody on this forum who has anything better to offer than a personal opinion as far as I can I tell, same for me, so I look for validated info and read it, then try to improve my care. I didn't try to be provocative, I guess my comments were though, sorry, but they weren't meant to be critical.
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 10:14:11 AM
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crazysnakelady
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I currently have 1 BP and have him in a 55 at the moment. He has been in various sized enclosures, including tubs, in the years that I have had him. He is 25 years old and honestly, he's never changed his feeding habits in any enclosure he's been in. He is of course a well established adult, but still. He doesn't go off feed for the winter like some. He has been bred once (was in a 55 at the time, with a large but not overweight female) and went off feed during that time. He will roam at night, as all of my snakes do, but he is typically lazy. These are all opinions and you can do what you feel is right, but there is nothing wrong with tubs IMO. Some snakes do excellent in tubs, like my smaller ATBs and GTPs. They ARE in fact a space saver and the temps are easy to control. If you are concerned with your snake having plenty of roaming space, a tub system may not be for you. If you want to be able to see them, same deal. It's all a matter of opinion.
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 11:43:52 AM
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Skalonji
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I have a Female Pastel that it has gotten bigger this year, and I end up moving her to a 35x18x6. 2 weeks after I moved her, she stopped eating, and as it is normal in BP's, didn't care too much. I did notice she was most of the time in her hide. After almost 2 months, decided to place her in her old tub again last week and hold. The size of the old one is 22x14. Yesterday, I offered food, and she had no problem eating, and also I see her more outside the hide. I have all of them in a rack, and have hides on each tub. If you have a small apartment, there is no way to have as many snakes as you can care of on tanks, and to me, BP’s are very addictive. GOOD LUCK!!!
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 11:46:45 AM
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JohnJohn
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Come on. Every species is different. It does seem obvious to me that BPs do fine in racks simply because a lot of people do so and seem to have perfectly healthy animals.
I have two BPs and they are in tanks with secure tops. They spend much of their time curled up hiding under their newspaper substrate. They're perfectly healthy. I think they would be just as fine in a tub or a rack.
My Blood Python lives in a sterlite tub and I'm absolutely convinced this is good for bloods, especially young ones, because they are sensitive and feel more secure in a tub. Most health problems and feeding problems with bloods can be fixed simply by putting them in a nice small tub where they feel secure.
Obviously, some species of lizards can't be in a tub or a rack because they need lots of space and high quality UV light, etc. But Leos do reasonably well in racks because they are nocturnal and don't need UV.
None of this is "rocket science" really.
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 11:56:17 AM
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shellboa
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I too have kept ball pythons in tanks, even several of them in one tank (we called them "the herd") The only time we saw any of them taking advantage of the space was when the roamed when they got hungry. Once they were fed they curled back up in the corner and didn't move except to drink and roam when they got hungry again. I did one in a 55 gl for a while and it spent almost all of its time inside the hide I provided. I now keep almost all of my snakes in racks and it is relatively the same behavior, roam when hungry and lie like a lump the rest of the time. Not exactly scientific research but it gives me enough foundation for my opinion, that my ball pythons and yes Nate my corn snakes do just fine in the racks.
There has been enough scientifc research done to prove that with their tiny under developed mid brain, reptiles do not experience emotions as we know them and that they operate on instinct. And a ball pythons instinct is to find a hole in the ground and curl up till its time to eat...
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 3:17:57 PM
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dalvers63
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I have kept ball pythons in both tanks and in racks. Personally they do fine in either as long as their needs are met (proper temps, humidity, hides, etc). In the end it all comes down to what works best for the keeper and the snake. I've had some that seemed happier in a large tubs and others that liked more space. As long as your animal is healthy, eating and, if you choose, reproducing don't worry to much. For space reasons I have a lot of my animals in tubs. All of my adult ball pythons have been kept in CB70 Iris tubs. The fosters are in the slightly smaller ones and I've had fosters in tanks, too.
Now the carpets, they're a different story :-)
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Member Comment
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9/29/2010 4:26:52 PM
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shellboa
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Yeah, boas too. A ball python coming out of a drawer at your face in a feeding response is a whole different thing with a carpet or a boa...you run out of room to back up too quick!
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Member Comment
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9/30/2010 8:22:34 AM
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abi21491
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To AAS - I've been keeping ball pythons for close to 10 years now, and used a multitude of different caging in that time. In the beginning I used tanks exclusively, and had snakes who wanted to hide and refuse food constantly. Then I moved them to larger professional type caging, same thing, maybe a little improvement. I just started using racks over this past year and my snakes have not once gone off food, they don't cruise trying to hide or escape - I personally think that the racks are better for them based on my own observation. Oh, and they actually breed when I want them to. To me, that is proof enough racks are fine for them. I think it's funny when people say tubs are too small - unless you're using gigantic aquariums, the floor space isn't any different than a tank. Plastic is better than glass. My snakes do get some amount of light as they are in my bedroom, and the light is on a good percent of the day. Basically though, use what works for you and the animal. I would never consider racks if I didn't think my animals did better in them.
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Member Comment
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9/30/2010 7:45:23 PM
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PitbullFan
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Wow...had no idea this thread was going to be so heated when I started reading it. Don, in my opinion it just comes down like Deb (and maybe someone else?) said. It's whatever works best for the animal first, and you the keeper second. Its pretty safe to say BPs will thrive in racks, if not breeders wouldn't use them. It's also safe to say they thrive in tanks. I've seen many of them do it. As long as the actual environment IN THE CAGE is optimum for the species, they don't give a hoot whether its contained in glass, plastic, or wood.
Cheers :)
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Member Comment
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9/30/2010 7:46:40 PM
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Geegmasta
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PFT to you all, I keep my American alligator and Nile crocodile in racks. I hear that they never outgrow their enclosures too...so I'm set for life! ;)
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Member Comment
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10/1/2010 8:29:38 AM
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JohnJohn
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Haha. Mr. Geegmasta. Dude. You're insane. But I do so wish you were my next door neighbor. We'd have fun.
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Member Comment
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10/1/2010 8:44:12 AM
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abi21491
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I wish Dan was your neighbor too, then he would have no excuse not to come over :P haha.
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Member Comment
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10/1/2010 10:44:41 AM
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Geegmasta
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John squared, living next to me is like living next to an amusement park that never closes! Hahah, it's always a blast.
Abby, do I even have an excuse now to not come over??? Hahah
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Member Comment
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10/1/2010 10:45:53 AM
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abi21491
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hahaha... right answer Dr. Dan =]
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Member Comment
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10/3/2010 11:34:44 AM
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all4athena
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Balls in racks are a great option for saving space. They're usually very very lazy, and don't like to move around a lot. I keep my balls in relatively small enclousres, and they do just fine, granted that I take them outside for an hour a few times a week (just a personal prefrence).
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Member Comment
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10/4/2010 8:25:44 PM
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Nitram
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ball pythons do not require a large enclosure, and for the most part are better off without one. they prefer a smaller habitat than most snakes (i only have 2 bps vs the dozens of boas and kingsnakes). i keep both of mine in a rack with fairly large tubs (almost as big as a 4x2x2 boaphile). im considering replacing 1 larger tub with 2 smaller ones, as i think they might be too big for the bps.
i only use the boaphiles for the adult female boas, my males dont even require such a large space.
people underestimate a rack system because they think everyone uses shoebox tubs, that's far from the case (at least in my collection). like i said, ive tubs that are quite huge, and there are larger tubs out there. you can successfully keep a giant constrictor you'd normal use a 6x3 or bigger enclosure in an equally large tub.
if you have the money, freedom breeders makes the best housing for large snakes in my opinion.
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Member Comment
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2/2/2011 3:52:32 AM
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abi21491
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