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Q: Ball python having trouble breathing (?) opening mouth, contorting coils
Posted By:

Crazy4Herps

In Relation To:

Culebra

Twenty minutes ago I was going around checking temps in all of my snake cages, since tomorrow's feeding day. I checked on Cu, one of my ball pythons, briefly pulling her out of her hide. Temps were spot on (88 on top of aspen substrate, 93 on bottom), and Cu seemed perfectly fine. She was alert, on the lookout for food, and a little jumpy, as always. Ten minutes after I put her back, I happened to glance at her cage and her mouth was open very wide (as if she were trying to eat a large rat), and the lower half of her body was coiling up. My first thought was of course neurological problems, stargazing and losing control of her muscles, but she was fine before and seems fine now, as do the rest of my animals. My second thought was that she looked like she was regurgitating something, trying to hack something up, but that can't be possible; the last time she ate was last Sunday, almost a week ago, and the rat was the exact size of rats I usually feed her, maybe a little smaller.

Then she turned her head and I got a look inside her mouth. LOTS of thick, gooey saliva/mucous, and it seemed like there was a big bubble (not the little bubbles she has when she gets RI's, but a single large orb of thick saliva in her throat). She has a history of chronic respiratory infections, so I am always on the lookout for symptoms. I have not noticed no signficant amount of bubbling or wheezing/whistling. She has been eating very well and has seemed in good health. I don't make a habit of opening her mouth completely (she is VERY headshy, and it's extremely difficult), but I keep a close eye on her.

I took her out and tried to scoop as much of the saliva/mucous (?) out of her mouth as I could. She's settled down now, in her hide with her head poking out.

I'm calling our vet first thing tomorrow morning, but for now I would just like some feedback. Could it be some type of stomach acid coming out of her mouth / is it possible for a snake to go through regurgitation without having any solid to regurgitate? Or am I right in thinking that it's definitely her respiratory problems again? Most importantly, is there anything I can do to help her breathe (if it is a resp. problem)?


Points: 250
Topics: Respiratory , Regurge , Mouth
Tags: Ball, Behavior, Illness, Mucus, Python, Regius, Respiratory
Species: Pythons > Pythons > Python regius
Administrative: Show/Hide

Accepted Answer 12/4/2010 11:45:21 PM

HurricaneJen

Sounds like the respiratory is in the lower part of the lung, making it much, much harder to eradicate and much, much worse than an upper RI.  The contortions and fluid you're describing aren't very promising signs, your reaction to get her to the vet ASAP is a good one. 


Basically, all you can do for now is keep the heat up.  My only other possible suggestion would be to switch bedding - I personally have issues with ball pythons on aspen, as do a lot of people in my area in Southern California.  It tends to wick a lot of moisture out of the air, while a bedding like cypress, which is already damp, will allow water to evaporate.  Being too dry can cause an RI just as much as being too wet can, so the aspen may be part of the reason for her chronic RIs.  I know the typical reaction to an RI is to dry everything out, but for animals that need it semi-tropical (or humidity higher than the ambient in the average house), drying it out is going to cause just as many problems as keeping it too wet.

worth a shot at least, hopefully your vet can help her out.  Good luck and keep us posted!

 
Member Comment 12/5/2010 2:37:09 PM

shellboa

I have noticed what I call "hurking" where they have copious amounts of saliva and seem to be going through the motions of regurge when I have had a snake with a heavy parasite load. I had one rescue who I was convinced had some awful RI and was "coughing" but to be safe and cover everything the vet did a fecal as well. No RI but a positive fecal, protozoa and nematode. Treated that an no more "hurking". Either way a trip to the vet for sure. IMO aspen works as long as you keep up on misting but for an animal with issues I'd use newspaper or paper towels.

 
Author Comment 12/5/2010 3:38:51 PM

Crazy4Herps

Thank you both so much for the help. The vet clinic is closed on Sundays, but I'm keeping a very close eye on her for today and I'll call first thing tomorrow morning to get her in hopefully by Tuesday.

HurricaneJen, thanks for the info. I have heard of dry conditions causing RI's, and I actually believe that was how she contracted her first RI  several years ago (I had her in a glass tank at the time, and it is very dry here). I've got her in an acrylic cage now that retains humidity very well, so hopefully it is no longer a problem.

Shellboa, I did not see any sign of parasites in the puddle of saliva she hacked up, and her feces have appeared to be normal, but that definitely sounds like what she was doing yesterday. I will definitely take a fecal sample to the clinic as soon as I can get one. I do have a question, though. She has defecated since her last meal, and I doubt I will be able to get another fecal sample until she eats again. Could there be any problems if I fed her tonight? I'm thawing some rats for the other pythons and the boa anyways.

 
Member Comment 12/5/2010 9:36:51 PM

Lashman

I also have to agree with HurricaneJen about keeping balls to dry. Went through it with first ball we rescued. You have to remember they tend to live in burrows underground with higher humidity than outside where they tend to live. They get kept to hot and dry. I equate it to us getting severe cottonmouth under same conditions! As far as open top tanks or cages, remember you can cover half or more of those screen tops to help hold in heat and humidity that goes straight up otherwise. As far as feeding I would think eating would be a good sign of not to sick or weak to eat.

 
Member Comment 12/6/2010 2:29:35 PM

EbonayiasGirl

I had that happen once with one of my small RTB's.  He was trying to regurge (didn't have any mucus or bubbles) but looked like he was basically dry heeving because nothing came up.  He did it off n on for about 5 minutes the day before his feeding.  I haven't seen him do it since though.  Don't know what it was but I've been keeping an eye on how he eats and stuff more now, in case anything comes of it.  Hope it's not too serious.  Let us know when you find out.

 
Author Comment 12/6/2010 7:59:06 PM

Crazy4Herps

Thanks for the input. She took a very small meal last night, though she was very reluctant. She seems to be fine, and upon looking inside her mouth, there really isn't a ton of mucous/bubbling. Well, I've got an appointment at the vets for tomorrow, so we'll see what she says, then I'll try to get a fecal sample in later this week if the vet doesn't think its respiratory.

 
Member Comment 12/6/2010 10:44:14 PM

aaron

Please make sure to follow up with us!

 
Member Comment 12/7/2010 10:54:35 AM

shellboa

A good vet can obtain a fecal swab if you don't have a stool sample to test.

 
Author Comment 12/7/2010 6:50:26 PM

Crazy4Herps

We just got back from the vet, and it went very well, I think. Vet had a look in her mouth, said there was a bit more saliva than normal, but not enough to be a concern, and it may be a result of preparing for a shed (more yawning leads to accumulations of saliva). It actually worked out really well, I was getting Cu ready to leave and I realized she left a lovely little fecal sample for me just last night! That's being tested now and I should get the results by tomorrow.

 
Member Comment 3/7/2011 1:34:18 AM

abi21491

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