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Q:
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Help with stimulating feeding response in a young black ratsnake
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Ok, this is really a request for ideas from the iHerp community for a long term issue that I've had no luck with.
Around a year ago, a friend gave me this little guy: http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=56961 (That pic is from right after I got him and he's a little bigger now.) He was found in the office building elevator where she works, and is likely wild born. She took him home, and had no problem getting him to eat frozen thawed pinks. Then gave him to me because he was a violent little bastard, and she doesn't really want to get into black ratsnakes. He ate fine for me for the first few weeks and constantly tried to eat my fingers as well. Then he quit eating, and quit trying to kill me at the same time... He's lively and interested, clear eyed and good muscle tone, but doesn't try to bite me and isn't interested in food.
My workaround is that he gets his pinks unwillingly. And he's a good sport about being force fed two pinks every feeding day (around once every week and a half to two weeks) with a pair of tongs. He opens his mouth when the food gets to him while I'm holding a little behind his head, but I cannot get him to do the eating/swallowing. I haven't needed a pinkie pump or anything, and he doesn't even act stressed about it. His weight is good, and he sheds cleanly. I do offer the food to him each time in hopes he'll go for it on his own, but no luck. I didn't start force feeding him until he'd gone a month and a half without eating and I noticed a slight weight loss.
I've tried anole scenting, washing the pinks with soap, teasing, offering a live pink, offering part of a pink, leaving him alone with it, leaving him in his cage and a feeding cage, tried feeding at different times of the day, giving him probiotic in his water and on his food..... His caging is the same as my other snakes the same size, and he has nothing else "wrong" at all. He passes normal waste about two to four days after eating, and drinks water at the same rate as the rest of my snakes. The inside of his mouth looks healthy and normal. His breathing is quiet and regular, and he shows no signs of stress. He's the picture of a healthy snake and I'd buy him in a second at a reptile show if I didn't know he doesn't eat.
So, the question is, do you guys have any ideas for stimulating feeding response in a ratsnake? I'll try anything that doesn't sound dangerous, as I don't want to be force feeding him when he's up to needed full sized mice.
(And I wouldn't mind trading him away if he would eat!)
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Member Comment
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6/28/2011 10:40:57 AM
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gluttony32
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Scent an item with chicken stock, I believe they feed on birds in the wild amongst other things. Also pinks might be a little to small for him try a fuzzy or hopper that moves around a little better and it might generate a response. I have heard of tuna scenting but have never tried it. and i would let him go without food for a little longer than a month and a half. I have done up to 3 months.
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Accepted Answer
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6/28/2011 1:11:31 PM
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Maixx
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Has a fecal exam been done? wc are prone to have parasites, and they will cause any snake to go on a hunger strike. I'd get a vet exam. Most Ratsnakes are agressive eaters once established, this could be a sign of a problem.
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Assisted Answer
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6/28/2011 3:06:54 PM
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Aimee
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I'm with Maixx. our herp society rescue took in a wild black rat a few years ago. he wouldn't eat...wouldn't eat...wouldn't eat...although he looked great. eventually, the vet gave him a vitB shot to induce appetite and he took a mouse. after this, we FINALLY got a fecal sample to test - and he was absolutely loaded with parasites, even though he looked healthy and gorgeous. after treatment, he had a normal appetite and no problem at all eating f/t mice for me. a few months later he adopted out.
even if he appears healthy and the parasites aren't killing him or anything, I suspect they would give him a tummy ache and decrease appetite
good luck! he's cute
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Assisted Answer
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6/28/2011 5:36:39 PM
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YShennanBot
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Get him checked by a vet as soon as possible. I had a cbb ratsnake bought from a pet store who ate fine for them and for me for a while, and then his apetite decreased in the same manner although he still appeared fine. Suddenly, he began rolling onto his back and opening his mouth, and then died. You may be dealing with a parasite but since your little guy has a healthy immune system he's been staying healthy. Things can go wrong quick, and rather safe than sorry.
Good luck! Hope you find a solution.
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Author Comment
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6/29/2011 5:44:40 AM
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AbstractMage
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Looks like I'll contact our herp vet the next time I'm a little less broke, and I'll try the chicken stock thing and tuna scenting in the meantime.
As far as the size of prey, he's been growing a little slow (And was obviously a hatchling when found), so pinks are the biggest I can get down him. He's not ready for fuzzies, much less hoppers. He's only recently gotten to where I'm giving him two pinks for each feed, so I'm certainly not going to try to cram a fuzzie down him to see if he can throw it up in a few days or if I can hurt him doing it. When I tried live he seemed scared of the moving pink, and I had one that squirmed plenty when prodded a little. Ended up freezing it for later since I don't have any live feeders and don't want to give any of my guys ideas by offering a live one.
(Buying a good gram scale is on my list, but not done yet so I can't quote his weight)
I was wondering about parasites but most of the parasite stories I'd heard involved more symptoms or at least listless behavior. And listless he isn't. He's curious about everything, just doesn't bite. But I'll take a fecal sample when I get a chance to see our herp vet. (He's a bit of a drive away, and I'm a bit broke right now.) I do think I'll keep up the probiotic to help him until I can get it checked by the vet.
Aimee - do you know which vitamin B your vet used? I'm wondering if dusting his next meal with vitamins might help?
Going three months without feeding him is totally out of the question. I force feed when I see ANY visible weight loss since things can go from not eating to dead WAY too fast with a snake this size. I lost a tiny little mexican milk last year to her having feeding issues because I waited a little too long to force feed her, and by the time she showed any weight loss at all it was too late. And I'm not going to play starvation games with this little guy to see if I can stress him to death.
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Member Comment
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6/29/2011 3:57:07 PM
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Aimee
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my vet used an injectable solution of vitamin B - not sure which kind, but's it a veterinary standard. other fosters have gotten it at her office, and our other network vets do the same. but if he's not eating, dusting won't help - the vitB is absorbed and then the immune system/appetite are stimulated.
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Author Comment
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6/29/2011 5:01:00 PM
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AbstractMage
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Well, you know Aimee, he IS getting food down him, just not on his own, so that's why I thought maybe I could put it on/injected into the pinks.
I'll have to ask our herp vet what he thinks of the idea when I talk to him.
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Assisted Answer
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6/30/2011 3:46:42 PM
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gluttony32
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Check out stores like marshalls or maybe even walmart and pick up a scale for kitchen use..I have a weight watchers one i got for a dollar at a yardsale. If not any good head shop carrys them reasonably priced.(as opposed to ones specifically for reptiles). Judging by the size in the picture of ur profile I would say he is big enough for fuzzys. I put my problem feeders in a small sterlite tote ( one where the snake doesnt have a lot of room to move in) thats been spray painted black on the outside and drilled with 4 airholes in each corner and leave them in with their fuzzies or pinks(f/t or live) overnite in a quiet location. They also sell reptile dewormer you can dose yourself and treat for parasites along with water soluable vitamins.
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Author Comment
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7/1/2011 6:41:07 PM
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AbstractMage
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Gluttony, thanks for your response. I'll check out the thing with the scale.
I'm guessing you have a source of fuzzies way smaller than the ones I'm used to seeing, or you have huge hands to compare scale with. :D He's really not big enough for fuzzies yet. And I do have a dark feeding tank for that, almost exactly the same set-up you describe, and it didn't make any difference. (Also tried what works with my three "shy" eaters and put him in his own cage with the food and then went away, again, no luck.) As far as dewormer goes, I know that there are a bunch of possible parasites and that giving the wrong medication can just stress his immune system, so he's going to the vet as soon as the next paycheck arrives.
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Member Comment
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7/2/2011 12:50:52 AM
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gluttony32
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lol..idk maybe your right my giant hand compared to a peach fuzzie or little snake.... The vet would have been my first suggestion but us reptile geeks are usually somehwat broke so I just gave a quick run down of things I would do before the vet visit..good luck and hope it eats soon.
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