iHerp Answers! mail us Problem? search Search       Create an Account, It's Free!
  Home > iHerp Answers > baby beardie sick with pics
Q: baby beardie sick with pics
Posted By:

4loveofdragons

In Relation To:

Cosmas

Our littlest dragon is sick.. He doesnt eat much but his belly is huge. I am very worried.  We do not have money for a vet, but i may ask my mom for help, she is really broke though, so it is an absolute last resort.  it will be a week or so before we might have enough money to take him. maybe. and then i dont even know what the vet would do, or what the fees would be after the initial visit so i want to know what you guys think a vet visit would do, as well as if i have reason to be worried... 
anyway, here is what i have been doing with him. 
his tank set up:1 zoomed 25 watt basking bulb about 4 inches from basking spot, this keeps the general tank temp at about 85 F, and the basking spot around 105-110 F. 1 exo terra 10.0 26 watt uvb bulb, bought less than 3 months ago, also about 4-5 inches away. We have a 13 watt 10.0 i can switch him to if you think it is better.
he is very small so we keep him in a small tank so he doesnt get tired when hunting prey. it is a snake tank measuring 24"long, 12"wide, and 9" tall. 
i just cleaned everything on tuesday with 10% ammonia 90% water, and then rinsed it all very well in water then dried it all very well and let it dry for like 24 hours before i put the stuff back in there. The tank i only dried for like 45 minutes but i am sure there was no ammonia left in there. 
supplements i use are zoo med's reptivite, and repashy calcium plus for bearded dragons. 
in general, we offer baby dubia roaches, he wont touch crickets. greens offered have been dandelion greens predominantly, and now collards (our other dragons eat the collards fine, but the littlest (cosmos) doesnt like them. mix ins are cactus, carrots, bell peppers, etc. i mix it up depending on what we have.  i only feed greens from the organic foods store. 
around thursday we bought nature zone appetite plus (B12 supplement in liquid form) and it seemed to help his activity levels, and eating initially but not so much anymore.  ( http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-medications-mite-sprays-and-cleaners/-/appetite-plus/ )we bought reptaid and began his first round on monday, aug 29. just a few drops mixed with water and the appetite plus. 
he is making urates, as of wednesday.  on thursday his shit was mostly liquid, with some kind of worm (a parasite? it did not look like a mealworm or anything we have fed him!!!) it was about 1/2 an inch long. or maybe 1/3 of an inch. 
today i noticed his head was twitching. why is his head twitching? I dont know if i would call it a twitch, or a shiver, but when i held him it was almost like he was vibrating.  when he is in his tnak under the heat he stops.

 he has always had a 10.0 UVB bulb on him, and a basking spot that gets to be between 100-115, and a tank with a temp gradient. 

he is on paper towel and has been so for a few weeks.  we used to keep him on reptisand, or calcisand. i clean it immediately as soon as i notice any poo or urate and take out the thing he pooped on so it wont reinfect. 


he is on day 5 of reptaid.. we are planning to do a full course of 10 days on, 2 days off, then 10 days on again.  
Today i started feeding him organic winter squash baby food by needleless syringe. he ate about 60 cc's. i mixed in the reptaid with the baby food today instead of the water/b12 supplement. he drinks plenty of water from his bowl and i change it almost daily. 
the bones at the base of his tail are sticking up and it is freaking me out. 
he ate some dubia roaches on wednesday. he had 3 that were appropriately sized, and then was absolutely stuffed.  the next morning he puked up one of them. hasnt eaten anything since, other than the reptaid with baby food. 60cc's. 
please help any advice or suggestions.  i am quite worried. 
here is a link to the flickr photostream of all the pics of him from today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brookeschuller/sets/72157627578808630/


Attached Photos:


Points: 250
Topics: Feeding , Digestive , Parasites
Tags: Bearded, Beardeddragon, Beardeddragons, JuvieDragons
Species: Lizards > Lizards > Pogona vitticeps
Administrative: Show/Hide

Member Comment 9/2/2011 6:39:34 PM

Jeff08

Temps are way to warm...

 
Accepted Answer 9/2/2011 7:32:09 PM

Skelegirl

Just from the pics, 60 mLs (or cc's) of food for such a small dragon seems enormously excessive.  Are you force-feeding him all of that, or is he readily accepting it?  I don't think that even an adult dragon's stomach could hold 60 mLs of anything.  A dragon that small could probably take 5-10 mLs at the most in one sitting.  I'm wondering if the overfeeding led to the regurge.

The temps don't seem way too hot to me, as long as the 100+ temps are just in his basking spot only, and he has a good temp gradient to self regulate with.

It sounds to me like you're dealing with a possible parasite load.  A vet visit with a fecal would be in order, so they can properly identify the culprit and presribe the proper medication for him (not sure what the vets in your area charge, but I'm guessing you're looking at about $100, maybe a bit less).  The Reptaid could/should erradicate parasites as well, but you have to keep at it, and you won't know for sure if it's worked without a fecal from a vet.  So, your best bet would be to see a vet.  Some people might recommed just self-prescribing Panacur, but in my experience, that stuff can wreak havoc on a dragon's digestive system (I always supplement with acidophilus in liquid form when dosing w/ Pancur or Albon), so to give it to a sick dragon when you don't know if they really need it might do more harm than good.  If you truly cannot afford the vet, keep up with the Reptaid, probably 2 or 3 courses.  But my #1 recommendation would be to get him to a herp vet.

Oh yeah, and while he's sick, definitely stick to the paper towels.  And once he's well, you might consider an alternate substrate to sand, as there are many reasons why it's not the best idea (impaction, bacteria, etc).

 
Assisted Answer 9/2/2011 7:32:26 PM

skoodles06

He sounds stressed . I agree the temps are too warm for a tank that size . Beardies can get parasites too so you need to go to a vet for a fecal to get a de-wormer appropriate for your little guy . I would recommend taking him to vet and ask if they do payment plans or take a credit card called "care credit" that you can apply for . It would be a shame to lose the little guy due to lack of funds , although it happens all the time .BTW is/was he seperated from the rest of your beardies?

 

 
Member Comment 9/2/2011 7:38:31 PM

Skelegirl

Forgot to add: you might want to check out the proper dosing and administration of Reptaid.  A few drops in water doesn't sound like a calculated dose to me.  I've found the best way to administer it is to inject directly into a dubia roach using a 1cc syringe with a very small needle (25g).  Or, if he won't eat the bugs but will eat the baby food, add the appropriate amount into a *small* amount of baby food (a few mLs) to ensure he gets the full dose.  Here is dosing/adimistration info on Reptaid:  http://www.reptaid.com/administerchams.html

 
Assisted Answer 9/2/2011 9:18:11 PM

Doomtrooper

I agree you are cooking the poor guy !

 
Assisted Answer 9/2/2011 10:04:47 PM

Floof

My first thought was along the same lines as Skelegirl: Parasite load.

Then you mentioned the calcium sand. With such a small dragon especially, I'm thinking impaction is a strong possibility here. The main questions there would be, is he pooping normally (not just urates)? And to the more experiences members: Can a partial impaction cause these symptoms without completely blocking the ability to pass waste? (If that makes sense...)

In either case, you need to get to a vet. Get a fecal--that's the more likely issue. I'm not sure how impactions are found--xray? In any case, if the fecal comes out negative, checking for blockage would be a good idea.

On cost, if it helps, the first time I took my dragon (a subadult at the time) to a herp vet, he got an xray, a vitamin injection, a fecal exam, and a dose of de-wormer (I think that's everything--there may have been a calcium injection, too), and it cost about $270 total (that's with the $45 office visit charge). Considering everything that was done during the visit, not too bad--certainly cheaper than some of my dogs' vet visits! I'd call your local herp vet (find a good one--going to a bad one won't do you any good) and find out how much the trip is most likely going to cost. It may wind up being quite a bit less than you'd expect.

 
Member Comment 9/2/2011 10:07:29 PM

Louie

I only feed babies pinhead crickets.If you feed them crusty shelled food they can become impacted.Has it pooped? if not let him swim around in a warm tub of water for a while see if it helps him poop.Also look up Lynns bearded dragons she has been breeding beardies for along time and will help as much as she can.Good luck.

 
Assisted Answer 9/3/2011 2:33:01 AM

Solid_Snake

My first though was parasites or impaction... Try bathing him in warm water with some epsom salts. If he is impacted that will help. My beardies get it once a week, the minerals also help with shedding. Also, get him off the sand, slate tile is a great altenative because it holds heat well.

You also mentioned a worm in his stool, are you sure it was a worm, that sounds pretty big. If it is a worm you NEED to get him to a vet. 

As far as vet costs, most vets will allow some type of payment plan. Even if it's writing post dated checks for 6 months like mine did when our cat needed a $2,500 surgery.

IMO You should also get him in a bigger tank, well at least a higher one, it's easier to maintain a temperature gradient.

And finally... 60CC'S!!!!! I think you meant .60 cc's and check your dosages on meds a few drops in a water dish is not nearly enough. 

 
Author Comment 9/3/2011 6:52:08 AM

4loveofdragons

I disagree I am not cooking him.  he isnt dumb he moves to th side if its too hot,  plus i have read on COUNTLESS breeders websites caresheets that basking spots for dragons his size should/can be up to 115 or even 120. even after a long time of sitting in the same basking spot the digital probe thermometer i use the reading still shows at most 113.  since i have had to sanitize everything with ammonia i dont currently have any basking items (read not to use the wood because it might be harboring coccodia) so i will make something tomorrow to lower his basking spot a bit just to make sure he is not getting "cooked". 

stress very well might have been a factor but i have done all i can to eliminate it by closing off the view of him from the other dragons we have. now he is sheltered from their sights, it seems to help A LOT just having the towels covering his tank walls.  i noticed how serious it was when he went from basking earlier to head bobbing. all i want him to focus on is basking and eating and pooping and sleeping.

He is not currently on sand, though i understand he might have been impacted from the reptisand/calcisand we used before. 

60 cc's is a real small amount if you saw the needleless syringe i am using it is not too much. didn't you read that i did say i mixed the reptaid w baby food.  he accepted the food, i cant force feed him; i get him to lap it up by delicately moving the drips of baby food mixture on his nose/mouth back and forth and he opens up and starts licking. mind you, he did  not regurge the baby food, or anything today. we he did regurge 1 dubia of the three i fed him wed/thursday and has in the past regurgitated 3 things at spread out intervals: 1/2 superworm,  1 mealworm, and then the most recent dubia i already discussed. 

my mom's friend's husband is a vet and i know a few people who may be able to help me do a fecal at home. just gonna wait till we get a poo again and then i'll collect and refrigerate it and start calling the people i know because even $100 is gonna be a lot for me alone. i have friends in the animal care community in SD though so a fecal should really be no prob. 

i have Jarro-Dophilus EPS® on hand, it is a powder capsule with Lactobacillus, Bifidobacteria, Lactococcus and Pediococcus in it. http://www.jarrow.com/product/228/Jarro_Dophilus_EPS it is made for humans but do you think i can use it for my beardie? if so then how much? in conjunction with the reptaid or just use it after or on the offdays for reptaid? 

 

the dosing for reptaid for my size of dragon (under 25 grams) says 2-3 DRIPS. So i hope by putting a couple of drips in the babyfood i feed through a needleless syringe i am not mis-dosing him... this is what i have read on several different websites about dosing reptaid. 

baby dubia roaches have a softer shell than crickets and abut 4-5x the protein as a same sized cricket.  we are not feeding him food bigger than the space between his eyes. 

can he be impacted and still be running around? cause he does still run around when we let him out on the bed and stuff.  

 

are you guys just trying to get points because a lot of replies here seemed to have only skimmed my initial post.  

 

should i switch the exoterra coil to a 10.0 - 13 watt instead of the exoterra coil 26 watt - 10.0 he has now?  i know powersun is the best but that bugger is 50 bucks and thats a lot! why do they even sell the crappy bulbs if they are so crappy. this is bull.   btw if i had the powersun in that size tank it WOULD cook my dragon. those suckers get hot as f***. 

 

i agree i think it is parasites, so while i wait for him to poop and then do a fecal, what should i prepare for by trying to treat him without a vet?  am i on the right track? 

 
Author Comment 9/3/2011 7:22:19 AM

4loveofdragons

I disagree I am not cooking him.  he isnt dumb he moves to th side if its too hot,  plus i have read on COUNTLESS breeders websites caresheets that basking spots for dragons his size should/can be up to 115 or even 120. even after a long time of sitting in the same basking spot the digital probe thermometer i use the reading still shows at most 113.  since i have had to sanitize everything with ammonia i dont currently have any basking items (read not to use the wood because it might be harboring coccodia) so i will make something tomorrow to lower his basking spot a bit just to make sure he is not getting "cooked". 

stress very well might have been a factor but i have done all i can to eliminate it by closing off the view of him from the other dragons we have. now he is sheltered from their sights, it seems to help A LOT just having the towels covering his tank walls.  i noticed how serious it was when he went from basking earlier to head bobbing. all i want him to focus on is basking and eating and pooping and sleeping.

He is not currently on sand, though i understand he might have been impacted from the reptisand/calcisand we used before. 

60 cc's is a real small amount if you saw the needleless syringe i am using it is not too much. didn't you read that i did say i mixed the reptaid w baby food.  he accepted the food, i cant force feed him; i get him to lap it up by delicately moving the drips of baby food mixture on his nose/mouth back and forth and he opens up and starts licking. mind you, he did  not regurge the baby food, or anything today. we he did regurge 1 dubia of the three i fed him wed/thursday and has in the past regurgitated 3 things at spread out intervals: 1/2 superworm,  1 mealworm, and then the most recent dubia i already discussed. 

my mom's friend's husband is a vet and i know a few people who may be able to help me do a fecal at home. just gonna wait till we get a poo again and then i'll collect and refrigerate it and start calling the people i know because even $100 is gonna be a lot for me alone. i have friends in the animal care community in SD though so a fecal should really be no prob. 

i have Jarro-Dophilus EPS® on hand, it is a powder capsule with Lactobacillus, Bifidobacteria, Lactococcus and Pediococcus in it. http://www.jarrow.com/product/228/Jarro_Dophilus_EPS it is made for humans but do you think i can use it for my beardie? if so then how much? in conjunction with the reptaid or just use it after or on the offdays for reptaid? 

 

the dosing for reptaid for my size of dragon (under 25 grams) says 2-3 DRIPS. So i hope by putting a couple of drips in the babyfood i feed through a needleless syringe i am not mis-dosing him... this is what i have read on several different websites about dosing reptaid. 

baby dubia roaches have a softer shell than crickets and abut 4-5x the protein as a same sized cricket.  we are not feeding him food bigger than the space between his eyes. 

can he be impacted and still be running around? cause he does still run around when we let him out on the bed and stuff.  

 

are you guys just trying to get points because a lot of replies here seemed to have only skimmed my initial post.  

 

should i switch the exoterra coil to a 10.0 - 13 watt instead of the exoterra coil 26 watt - 10.0 he has now?  i know powersun is the best but that bugger is 50 bucks and thats a lot! why do they even sell the crappy bulbs if they are so crappy. this is bull.   btw if i had the powersun in that size tank it WOULD cook my dragon. those suckers get hot as f***. 

 

i agree i think it is parasites, so while i wait for him to poop and then do a fecal, what should i prepare for by trying to treat him without a vet?  am i on the right track? 

 
Member Comment 9/3/2011 6:22:53 PM

Skelegirl

With all due respect, 60 mL = 1/4 cup (a 60 mL syringe is about 5" long and 1" wide).  That's an awfully large volume for a baby dragon.

And I meant to supplement with acidophilus if you will be using a pharmaceutical de-wormer like Panacur or Albon.  Those types of medications will not only kill the parasites, but also the beneficial flora in the digestive tract (Reptaid will not).  Acidophilus supplementation will help keep those populations at healthy levels.  I've used capsules in the past, just pulled one open and sprinkled a bit out, but it's tough to judge how much you're using.  I found a liquid strawberry-apple flavored supplement @ Super Supplements that my dragons absolutely went nuts for, and administered it by mouth via syringe immediately after dosing with de-wormer.

I would definitely NOT switch to a compact flourescent (coil) UVB bulb.  Those have been shown to damage animals' eyes.  Your best bet would be a mercury vapor like a Powersun, but for such a small cage, you would definitely cook him.  You are on the right track with the flourescent tube.

And the replies you've gotten so far are people just trying to help (not to get "points" that don't mean anything).  Your initial post had a lot of information and was kind of tough to read...I'll admit I skimmed some of it.  Others probably did as well.  We're all here for the same purpose: to offer the help and support that makes this community so great.

 
Author Comment 9/3/2011 9:04:45 PM

4loveofdragons

thank you all for everything.  i realised the amount i am giving my baby in the syringe says 60 but it is out of a syringe that only holds 1mL.  sorry for the confusion. he readily laps up the baby food mixture.  

we are already using coils. should we switch to tubes? we are shopping for a bigger tank right now as we speak so a MVB is not far from sight, just might be a couple of weeks.  

 
Author Comment 9/4/2011 3:47:24 PM

4loveofdragons

he pooped today. it was a weird whitish globulous thing. it held its shape. there was urate next to it. have it in the fridge for fecal sample. 

 
Member Comment 9/6/2011 1:41:23 PM

La Price

you arent cooking him, if its too hot he'll move or gape. But yes, switch to tube repitisun as soon as possible. coils can cause problems with their eyes or just dont give off enough uv

keep trying the baby food, you can also mash up crickets and greens via blender and have him lick that up. i did that when my beardie was suffering from photo conjuctivitus.

 
Member Comment 9/14/2011 12:14:00 AM

Solid_Snake

How's the beardie doing?

 
Member Comment 6/4/2013 2:36:59 PM

Cenobite

This question has had no activity for 14 days and will be closed by an administrator unless the original poster takes action.

Recommended Action: Points awarded

An administrator will select responses and assign points at their discretion.

Original poster, please close this question out and assign points. If you have any further information in the resolution of your problem, please post it here so that others may learn from it.

You are not logged in. If you would like to participate (it's free!), you must log in, or Become a Member!
  

Member Login
Forgot My Password
Copyright ©2008, All Rights Reserved. iHerp, LLC | Terms of Use 6/27/2026 4:49:29 PM | 0.0.0.0