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Q: General inquiries about Columbian Red Tail Boa's and their care. Help?
Posted By:

visceralrepulsion

Hello! I'm going to be aquiring a Columbian Red Tail Boa at the end of this month, or the beginning of March. He is around 6yrs. old, estimated to be about 6ft. long, and last weighed in at 24-25lbs. They guesstimate him to be the girth of perhaps a 1-liter bottle.  I'm doing research and physically preparing for the new addition to my scalebabies in the meantime. I currently own Corn Snakes, so owning a Sub-tropical species is going to be new for me. Though I read a lot about all species of snakes, have been doing my homework on Boa's, (especially Columbian Red Tail's since this is specifically what I'll be dealing with), and doing as much as I can to prepare for his arrival, I'm inquiring with anyone and everyone about their care, husbandry, healthy, feeding, etc. to attain as much knowledge as I can before he's in my care. There are some things I know, some things I'm still curious about, and somethings I'd still love to know more about regarding Columbian Red Tail's in general. I guess I'd like to know from those of you with experience owning them more about their care, husbandry, feeding, health, etc. from your own experiences and knowledge. This is a good time to tell-all about how you do things with your own Columbian Red Tail's, what you've learned, and what you think works best. Essentially, I'm trying to get a consensus from you all =].  Some questions I have specifically are: How do I go about converting this snake from live to frozen/thawed rats? I've been told from a few different people that 2 jumbo rats once a month is a sufficient feeding for a snake of that size, is this true? How do you often and what do you feed your snakes this size? A friend with large tropical and sub-tropical species uses infared bulbs to create the desired ambient air temperature and so not to disturb the animals with bright lights being on all the time. Is this a fine and efficient way to create the desired 80-85 degree ambient air temperature? (He has a heating pad, and I have a thermostat to keep his warm side the desired 90-95 degrees.) By "moderate" humidity, what does that translate to in percentages? 60-70%? Can this be maintained by misting the tank regularly like I've read? What do you all use for substrate with your CRTB's? Is Aspen efficient, or does something else work better like cocoa husk, critter care, etc. considering they need more humidity? Rudimentally I would like some of these questions answered, and for you all to briefly but in detail discuss how you care for your CRTB's so I can get a better feel for what kind of care my big fella's going to need. Please don't insult my intelligence, or me, in your replies. Please =\. I'm an intelligent person and snake-owner, and I'm pretty knowledgable about snake care, husbandry, health, etc., and I'm only asking to broaden my knowledge. I will only take on this snake once I feel comfortable with my knowledge of the keeping of CRTB's, but remember no one goes into snake-keeping an expert, and we ALL learn along the way. Thanks -Brandi


Points: 100
Topics: General Health , Heating
Tags: Boa, Care, ColumbianRedTailBoa, Feeding, General, Health, Humidity, Husbandry, Substrate, Temperatures
Administrative: Show/Hide

Assisted Answer 2/6/2012 9:14:31 PM

MdngtRain

i have 2, but they ae still young.  i use coco fiber that i soak once a week, or wn. it starts to dry out.  they have bins for soaking that i place un.der the mvb light. it keeps the water warmer and keeps the humidity up.  i've found that the 160w mvb keps themps pretty good, with an ambient temp of about 85 when the room temp is about 73.  i've only had them less then a year, and am constantly learning myself.  the n.ature cnter i work a has a 6.5' red tail, but i'm working with them to get her care right... a few don'ts: don't use reptilecarpet, don't let them dry out too much, and don't forget to provide a large enough heated spot for warmth.  sorry i dn't have moe for you. hope somone wl correct any mistakes for me.  god luck! (sorry for the crapy typing, my phone keyboard sucks)

 
Assisted Answer 2/6/2012 10:32:22 PM

KCB Constrictors

Columbian Boas are generally very agressive eaters and you may find that it can make the switch from live to F/T with no effort at all.  If it won't take a F/T right away, first try "Tail-dangling" a live rat for a few feedings to get the boa used to taking prey from your hands (or feed tongs) instead of chasing it around the cage floor.  Then you can move on to Freshly Killed prey and then to Frozen/Thawed.  There are other tricks out there for getting picky snakes to eat F/T, but like I said...boas aren't really picky in general.

As for what to feed, and how often...  This is really based on what you're doing with the animal.  If it's just a pet, and it's reached a healthy adult size, then feeding it once per month is usually alright.  Feeding is always subjective though.  If a snake starts to lose weight or look malnourished, boost it's feeding a bit.  If it starts putting on a lot of fat and starts looking really doughy, then back it off.  When you get into breeding though, it adds a new dynamic to feeding.  Some months your over feeding to pump your animals up in preparation for the season...and during other months your animals are in mating more and don't want to eat anyway.

Humidity is best maintained by keeping the animal in a proper enclosure with limited ventilation.  Glass fish tanks with mesh or screen tops are way, way too ventilated to maintain proper humidity.  Basically, the humidity in the tank is the same as the humidity in the room.  Misting will help for a few minutes, but it's a terrible set up.  Getting a proper enclosure for housing reptiles (like one of these Boahilie Plastics Cages ) will make holding proper temps and humidity much easier.  And yes, your boa will thrive in a nice 60-70% humidity.

Bedding - Aspen works, but it doesn't hold humidity as well as Cypress Mulch (my personal favorite).  I hate, Hate, HATE coco-fiber bedding (like Eco-Earth).  The crap is so finely ground that when the top layer dries out it becomes a dust that your animals can actually get into their lungs and cause problems.  I've had problems with it personally, and I've had a herp vet tell me to avoid the stuff like the plague.  Lesson learned.  Go with Cypress Mulch.  Great stuff.

 
Assisted Answer 2/6/2012 11:13:46 PM

Sonja K. Reptiles

Whoa... that sounds like a big boy.

Honestly, I do not have any Boas of that size, even ones that are of that length and age. The closest that I have in comparison is a Dumeril's that was given to me within the past year that at 7 ft was 21 pounds. And I know the metabolism for them is a bit different, but in his 11 yrs., he has never been fed more than a large rat, and he doesn't eat for a few months of the year. 

Anyway, I guess what I am wanting to say is that a decrease in amount being fed may be something to consider, but once you have him, that will be easier to evaluate since each animal is an individual.

As far as the size of prey, I feed my adult females a large rat every 2-3 weeks, and my males are fed a medium every 2-3 weeks. There really is no need to feed any larger than a large rat in my opinion. Recently Jeff Ronne spoke at my Herp. Society, and he stated that he doesn't feed is males larger than a medium anymore and has had fewer health issues and better breeders. 

A keeper can definitely have some *influence* in respect to the size of their animals by how they choose to feed them.

I keep my adults in 4 foot cages with red rosin paper for a substrate and a medium size water dish. Depending on the animal, some have hides, while some do fine crawling between the overlapping piece of paper as they desire. The humidity in the cages averages around 55%. I have noticed irritable behavior in my animals if the humidity gets higher than their liking. I have never had a Boa that has required live prey - and believe me, there have been a lot - even those that have come to me eating live only have taken warmed up frozen thawed on the first attempt. The cool end of my cages are roughly 80 degrees, but fluctuates by a degree or two either way. The hot spot - I know I keep a bit cooler than some, at 88, but it works well for my animals.

 
Member Comment 2/6/2012 11:21:29 PM

KCB Constrictors

+1 Sonja.  I was going to touch on Prey Size too, but forgot to mention it.  Here's the main thing to consider.  Large Rats are full size, fully matured adult rats.  Anything bigger than that (XL, XXL, Jumbo, or whatever) is nothing but 100% pure rat body fat.  If your boa's been feeding exclusively on Jumbo rats for a lenght of time, it's no wonder he's as fat as a Pepsi Big Slam.  I would suggest dropping him down to Medium rats, and I would feed him one rat every two weeks.  The smaller (and less fatty) meals, fed more frequently, will keep his metabolism up higher and help him shed some dead weight.

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 12:29:19 AM

visceralrepulsion

Sorry, I think I confused some of you, and in turn myself, haha. The snake is currently on average sized adult rats, one-every 2 weeks. I'm asking about jumbo rats because I'm used to the 1-1.5 x the girth of the snake rule with some species. Does this not necessarily apply to CRTB's? He may be overweight indeed. I'll get him weighed when I aquire him to establish a baseline. Then should I try feeding him one average adult/large adult rat every 3-4 weeks, or one medium rat every 2 weeks? Another probably silly question- If with snakes this large you don't go by 1-1.5 x the girth of the snake, what do you use as a guide, and how do you know when to go up in feeder size? With Corns a lot of people use the Munson Plan as a guide for feeder/ snake weight ratio, is there a similar plan for boa's I could use? And I have heard Cypress mulch is a good substrate for CRTB's, so I'll probably go with that. Right now the poor guy only has a heating pad, critter care substrate (which I've heard others use for their tropical/sub-tropical species too), and his tank. Right now my shopping list includes thus far: an infared bulb/lamp(still need to know what watt bulb I need for a 120G tank? Input please?; substrate (cypress mulch); a dual-end thermometer (for floor temps on warmer and cooler sides; a thermometer/hygrometer (for humidity gauge and ambient air temperature; 2 opaque sterilite tubs (large enough to be hides when turned upside down with entrances cut into them, for each end of the tank); frozen rats (of yet to be determined size); a large piece (or 2) of aquatic natural Mopani wood *16-18" (for climbing) until i find him a large enough thick sturdy branch in the woods that will suffice better, and yes I know how to safely sterilize wood and rid it of potential parasites; and I already have a thermostat for him. If I forgot/am forgetting anything, please speak up!

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 6:43:37 AM

visceralrepulsion

Found a photo (though it's 3yrs.old) of my soon to be scalebaby on the current owners facebook. Thought I'd show-off, errrr... I mean share. Hehe. But he is a fine looking specimen, isn't he? Though he's currently in a 120G tank, my goal is to build a viv much larger for him/possibly multiple viv's for all my snakes. I know someone though that has some large viv's they used to house some very large snakes, they were trying to get rid of them last I was aware, maybe I can attain them. Right now however my main focus is getting him, and aquiring the essentials needed for his care and husbandry since hes lacking some vital things. I know I can offer him a good quality life, and atleast a better one than he has now, though it may take some time to perfect his husbandry. But for now...*SQUEALS* EEEEKK, I'm so excited!!!

 
Assisted Answer 2/7/2012 8:32:09 AM

JWieczerza

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Boa-Constrictor-Comprehensive-Geographic/dp/0978897927

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 10:12:03 AM

visceralrepulsion

0o0o0o, looks like a must-have! On my wishlist on a site I order from I have "The Boa Constrictor Manual": From the experts at advanced vivarium systems- Including: Selecting a Boa Constrictor, Heating & Lighting, Housing, Feeding & Maintainance, Diseases & Disorders, by Phillipe De Vosjoli, and 3 herpetocultural experts. It says--"Relatively docile and safe reptiles, boa constrictors are thought to make some of the best large snake pets. Illustrated with outstanding color photos, three herpetocultural experts discuss at length all you need to know about caring for your boa constrictor. Common diseases and disorders such as IBD, an epidemic viral disease in captive boas, are covered in great detail. All subspecies and many of the currently bred pattern and color morphs can be found in this book. It is a must-have for both novice and expert snake keepers." It looks pretty decent, and I thought for $6, (yes SIX DOLLARS!) how can I pass it up, right? But I'd love to invest in the book you recommended too =]. But first I need to get Mr. Snake his essentials for happy, healthy living. I know the people that currently have him love him very much, and mean well in caring for him, but I'm honestly surprised he's lived this long and healthily without thermometers, a hygrometer, regular misting, a thermostat, hides, climbing branches, etc. etc. It's not a case of blatant neglect, I know this for a fact. It's simply a case of naive owners. I asked how he does with shedding, do they mist, etc? When they told me no they don't do anything for humidity and have to "help him shed his skin" I could tell they really cared enough to make sure he was able to rid his old skin by "helping" him peel it off, but on the otherhand I could tell they didn't quite understand that the reason he needs "help" shedding, is because of inadequate humidity and misting. They also thought that uth's regulate themselves, and if the snake wants to cool down he'll just "move to the other side of the tank". I couldn't bring myself to be blatantly honest with them knowing that he'll soon be in my care anyways. After numerous conversations I definitely gathered that they love him, especially when they asked if they could come see him sometime to know he's in a good home, and to see how he's doing. They just weren't well educated or informed since the beginning is what I've come to understand. Sorry for rambling...the moral is just that it's sad that some people don't want to intentionally neglect or harm their pet, but do so without knowing or intending it. Cases like this are examples of why I believe courses should be required to be taken to own most pets, and even to have children. BUT, that's a whole different topic which we won't get into, heh. Still curious to know if there is a rule of thumb, or guide to know what size feeder your snake needs, so I know before I order his feeders. Also, how do I go about switching him from live rats to f/t if it doesn't go as easily as most say it will? Just out of curiousity too, what makes one choose between  rats, guinea pigs, rabbits, etc? Is it because each has a different nutritional value and the choice depends on the snakes needs? Or is it purely a size issue? Or...?

 
Accepted Answer 2/7/2012 10:47:24 AM

JWieczerza

Most pro breeders boa setups include a tub, back wall heat, thermometer, newspaper, and a water bowl. Not that I agree, but this is the norm in the industry. Boas are very easy to keep and are pretty docile which is part of why they are so popular. I keep mine at 80-85 on the hot side and my home stays around 70-75. If you're on a budget you need a water dish (doesn't have to be big enough to soak in, people will tell you this but it's a luxury not a necessity) heat pad large enough to cover the bottom of the entire snake if he's coiled, rheostat or thermostat to adjust the heat pad, temp gauge to measure how hot it is, and substrate. I recommend Kaytee Brand Aspen Bedding and Litter for a list of reasons. Disadvantage is that they can mess under it and boa urates (the white lumps) can adhere to the bottom of your cage and you'll literally have to scrape it off like drywall mud. Don't use newspaper, it stinks and it makes the snakes black. Paper liner works great for putting under the aspen. Or you could probably even use paper bags from the grocery store. Point is that you need the aspen for substrate, (they love to burrow in it and hunt) but you want to put a liner down to prevent the mess from binding to the bottom of your cage when they go potty and it dries. Boas love to hide in caves during the day, if you can fit one in the cage i'm sure he'd appreciate it. As for furniture a few limbs and rocks are good, they are ground dwellers so keep that in mind. They aren't built for acrobatics. :) I prefer Mopani Wood, it also helps them shed when they need to rub on it and it's really heavy in weight. As for feeding I feed prey twice the girth of the snake once a week for fast growth, once every two weeks for steady growth. When feeding frozen the best method is to DRY THAW the prey. I know everyone says they put it in warm water and it works every time ect, but I can assure you'll get a better result dry thawing. Take the prey out, put it on a paper towell on a paper plate and put it under a lamp, flip it when it's ready ect. (Infra red works best) Take tongs and hold the frozen prey by it's tail, and tickle his nose with the fur or whiskers swaying the prey left to right slightly. Anything I forgot? lol

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 11:47:35 AM

visceralrepulsion

Nah, I think you covered most of it pretty well =]. As far as substrate, what about paper towels layered underneath cypress mulch substrate? I mean I could use aspen, that's what I use for my corns, but I've heard conflicting things about using it for boa's, and have heard more good about the cypress as a substrate, since it holds more moisture and has less of a tendency to mildew and mold. Also, I was thinking, if this snake is like the girth of a one-liter bottle, he'll need atleast a jumbo rat. But then people said a medium/large rat would suffice. But there's no way a medium/ large rat will be the girth of this big boy, even though that's what hes been eating at his current home. If I feed him something his girth he'll probably need guinea pigs. Is that logical? Should I just stick to large rats? Or jumbo rats? Ughhhh, I just want to be very prepared for what I'll be dealing with. And I'll need to order feeders because I can't take on the rat colony of breeders & feeders they offered me, so I'll need to know what to order =\. I know I'm probably making this far more difficult than it needs to be, but I'm a bit anal if you can't tell =p hahahaha.

 
Member Comment 2/7/2012 12:16:16 PM

JWieczerza

Cypress mulch is cheap and inexpensive bought in bulk from home depot, you have to bake it in the oven to kill potential pathogens first ect. This is the original shred grade though, and what you'll find in the pet trade is bagged double shredded grade, which is already sterilized in a pressure cooker ect. However, anything that needs that much food doesn't have tiny leavings, and you're going to need a good amount of substrate to get through the month. The bagged commercial stuff doesn't come cheap. Also cypress has to be kept at a humidity level of 70+ or else it dries out and becomes jagged and dusty, Kaytee Aspen is the softest in the industry, and doesn't have that burnt horse manure smell that most "kiln dried" aspens have. Plus the chips are shaved thinner making it softer ect. I like cypress for chondros, because they don't lay on it and it's a more humid environment anyways so it works well. You don't really want to keep your boa that humid though as they can develop scale rot and like you said the mulch can mold. What also happens is that when it dries out it breaks down and creates a lot of dust, I would say more then kaytee. I stopped using it in my monitors cages because it just got too dusty with the basking lamps and they were sneezing ect. And with your order just order jumbo rats. When boas are hungry then come out at dusk and parade around at the front of the cage. Some will try and escape to go hunt ect. If you notice this behavior in between weekly feedings then up the meal size. :)

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 1:44:51 PM

visceralrepulsion

So Aspen will be just fine? I don't think I've ever seen Kaytee Aspen anywhere, I'll have to do some snooping around online I suppose. Ok i found it. It comes in 56qt. for the price of 24qt. of regular aspen, not bad at all. What is the difference between the Kaytee, and the average aspen bedding? Just the texture/thickness of the shavings? I was told aspen gets mold/mildew more easily than stuff such as cypress. Will I have to watch for mold & mildew as a result of misting?  Sorry for all of the ridiculous seeming questions, I'm just very curious by nature, and I want to do my best to provide the most adequate living conditions for my big guy when he arrives. I think I'll get jumbo rats and feed once every 2 weeks? Is that sufficient, but not overly so? Thanks for everyone being so kind and helpful, and patient, haha. I really do appreciate it. =]

 
Member Comment 2/7/2012 2:08:46 PM

JWieczerza

http://www.cageliners.net   <--- I use those personally, buy a bulk roll of the correct width and cut it to size with a razor knife and a carpenters square, saves hundreds a year. Then I top it off with Kaytee about 4" thick so they can get under it if they want to. Your snake feels safest when he thinks nobody can see him. Kaytee is superior because 1, they use better wood, 2, the shavings are thinner so it's softer, 3, it smells way better then any other commercial aspen, 4, compared to other bulk pet aspen it has a relativley low dust count, 5, It has good absorbtion and clumps well around deposits. If you want to mist to add more humidity to your cage I would recommend getting a large piece of mopani wood and misting that instead of the substrate. Keep it near the middle/warm side and it will dry out creating humidity ect. Mold and mildew grow best on porus surfaces of organic matter. I guess if mold was choosy it would pick a type of wood that had a ph level that it liked, but that's a whole different topic. :) If you get mold it will be under the wood in between the substrate where it's damp and dark ect. A good way to prevent mold and mildew is UV and Basking lamps. And keep your misting to a surface area and lightly. Don't saturate the cage just add enough water so it evaporates quickly, and keep the moisture away from under the waterbowl and stuff like that. That's basically it. Mold and mildew grow where it's damp. So prevent dampness and you're good :) I've tried every line of aspen available, Kaytee is my favorite. The stuff they use for lab mice is made from good wood, but it's shredded so small it's basically confetti and dust and all the mice have respitory infections from being housed in it. The other commercial aspens are usually thick, rough, made from old nasty wood, and some even smell like barnyard. Just my personal experience. I used to breed sugar gliders so i've tried lots of different aspens lol ;)

 
Assisted Answer 2/7/2012 2:34:43 PM

CreepyCrawly

JWieczerza gave you excellent advice, IMO.  I agree regarding not using cypress and using the Kaytee aspen instead (that's what I use for my Columbians too).  I give my boas big enough water tubs to soak in - but they don't soak in them, so they definitely don't need it.  I think the large surface area encourages the proper humidity - and I don't ever have to mist.  IMO you don't want to keep your boa at that high of humidity all the time.  Also the large water tubs keep the snakes from being able to dump them - a frequent problem I had with smaller water tubs.  Big water tubs can be just as cheap as small ones.  For my 6' female her water tub is a large cat litter box, half full of water.  For some of my smaller ones I use the rubbermaid takealongs casserole dishes.  Also, they seem to love to climb on the edges of the water tubs (probably how they flip them over so frequently).  But with a bigger tub, full (or half) of water, it becomes too heavy for them to dump by sitting on one of the sides.  I don't like to wait a month between feeding - so I feed an XXL (or Jumbo, depending on the supplier) every 2 weeks.  I've never had a Columbian boa refuse f/t rats, even ones I was told had only eaten live their whole life.  I just offered them food like all the rest and they took it.  So it may not be a problem at all.  Generally they're really good eaters.

If you do use cypress or aspen, you may want to feed in a seperate container (feeding tub).  I do this, and I feel it works best for me and my animals.  Apparently this is somewhat controversial, as other members kind of got after me about it in the forums not that long ago.  Pros: Keeps your boa from ingesting a mouthful of wood and potentially becoming impacted, minimizes the chance of feeding aggression from becoming cage aggression.  Cons: some people feel that it is potentially dangerous for you to handle your snake before or after feeding it.  I don't quite understand the stand that you shouldn't handle before feeding - I suppose this could be in reference to the snake being stressed or hungry.  From my experience (10 years with boas) picking the snake up after feeding it, and returning it to it's cage is not enough to stress it out or cause harm.  My animals are all comfortable being handled, and I handle them regularly.  For me, keeping them from swallowing aspen, and keeping them from associating their cage with being fed, is a bigger benefit than the potential risks in handling the animal before and after feeding for a few moments to just get it from the cage to the feeding tub, or from the tub to the cage.  It's all of a 30 second trip.  A full minute round trip.  Years ago I tried switching from aspen to paper, and tried feeding the snakes in the cages.  I had one female become exceptionally cage aggressive.  Every time someone would go to unlatch the cage, she would coil her neck back and as soon as the door opened, she'd start striking.  I couldn't open the door without being bit.  Luckily she wasn't too big yet.  She started that behavior after just a few feedings in-cage.  When I got tired of being bit all the time, and went back to tub feeding it took just a few tub feedings for her to go back to her sweet, calm, easy going self.  I don't think that happens all that often, but it can.

Good luck with your new boy!  I'm sure you'll love him and he'll do great for you!

 
Author Comment 2/7/2012 3:30:24 PM

visceralrepulsion

Oh yes, that is something I forgot to address! Thanks for reminding me! I never feed my current snakes inside their tanks, due to the same pro's and con's you mentioned above. I'd be too worried about them ingesting aspen, and I'd rather just avoid the whole cage aggression thing as best as I can. But the current owners of the CRTB did tell me they always feed him in his tank. Which automatically made me cringe. I really hope he's not cage aggressive (they said he's not at all, but we'll see). I plan on trying to feed outside of the tank, I just need to find a bin big enough to fit him in comfortably while he eats! Haha. I'm thinking a short clothes basket that I have. It can easily be washed squeaky clean and used, and it's large enough to accommodate him with a little room to spare so he can move around in it, but not too much room. I'm hoping i don't have trouble when it comes to feeding time with this fella because hes going to be eating a f/t rat, out of his tank for the first time, all while in a new home. But I do hope you guys realize I'm not a novice to snakes, just CRTB's. So I have a good general knowledge, I'm just trying to narrow in on some info on CRTB's before his arrival. I'm actually glad I'm not picking him up for another few weeks, it gives me time to prepare all around. Luckily, the couple that owns him is holding him for me until the end of this month/the beginning of March because they really want him to go to a healthy, loving, snake- experienced home, and they know I can provide that =].

 
Assisted Answer 2/7/2012 4:46:01 PM

LGray23

I use newspaper, since aspen gets everywhere and after about the 4th time of having to pry open my male boas mouth to remove aspen after feeding I gave up. They are such strong eaters, they will GRAB and then DIVE into the substrate. Boas are awesome though, you will thoroughly enjoy him, he's very pretty. :)

 
Assisted Answer 2/8/2012 12:18:26 AM

joshc25

Well looks like everyone has touched all the bases and sounds like you have the knowledge but I will say this. Take what everyone has said and add your own.  All boas are different. Some of my boas have hide boxes and some just slam them over to move them out of there way. Yours may want one or may not. WAter bowl is key.  make sure it is sturdy. I have one boa who thinks it is funny to soak her cage when I put in fresh water lol. The only thing that I have read in this thread that I have concern with is feeding.  I feed all of my boas in there cage and I can pull all my boas out of there cage any giving time without a problem. The feed response will be there at first but I grab from the back or use a hook to show them I am not feeding. It works well for me. But there feed response gets even more aggressive after they eat. I will not even walk by there cage for a day or so until they chill out. So if you choose to feed him in a tub then try to get him out while he is still in hunt mode could cause some very painful encounters.  Good luck and congrats on your new boa. Keep us updated!!!!

 
Assisted Answer 2/8/2012 1:52:44 AM

CreepyCrawly

For what it's worth, my younger boas get feeding aggressive in their tubs before being fed.  They'll strike at any movement they see through the plastic of the tub (of the clear tubs) or any shadows that fall across their opaque tubs.  But after they get their rodent, they completely mellow out.  Once they've swallowed their meal, I can open the tub (2 minutes or 30 minutes later, it doesn't matter) and reach right in and pick them up with no worries of getting bit.  I have never been bit after feeding (and I've been bit plenty).  I can also go into their cages later that day, the next day, or whenever with no troubles.  When I tried to feed in-cage, and had trouble with my one girl, I couldn't reach in with a hook or go in from behind - I was never given the chance.  As soon as I started unlatching the cage, she was ready and aiming for me.  My cages have drop down front doors, so just lowering the door down to get it open got me bit.  But I do believe that she was not the norm.  None of my other snakes reacted that way, just her.  In the end, switching back to tub feeding (and keeping on aspen) was the better choice for me.  I wasn't getting bitten, and the snakes seem happier on aspen.  For me, I have absolutely zero cage aggression at any time, just some feeding tub aggression prior to giving them the rodents, and none afterwards.  But others could certainly have different results.  You'll have to see what works best for you.

 
Author Comment 2/8/2012 2:43:00 AM

visceralrepulsion

I'm still conflicted as to feeding my big fella, and how I should go about it. I'm thinking maybe I will just put a feed box into his tank in the corner on one side, and dangle the rat (using tongs of course, haha) over the box so that when he grabs the rat he doesn't get a mouth full of substrate too. Also in hopes that he'll eat atleast partially over the box, so no aspen is consumed while swallowing. BUT, you know how that goes, sometimes they'll eat right where they sit, other times they'll coil up in another area. So, we'll see, haha. If he isn't currently cage/food aggressive maybe I should stick to his routine for the most part and leave well enough alone, unless a problem developes later that requires a behavioral change by changing that routine.

 
Member Comment 2/8/2012 8:32:30 AM

KCB Constrictors

Sounds like you've got a good idea of what you're in for.  I just want to reitterate that if you buy any rats bigger than Large or XL, (XXL,  Tripple XL, Jumbo, etc.) all you're buying is extra body fat.  Since it sounds like he might already be overweight, continuing with the high fat content diet probably isn't the greatest of ideas.  Just my parting thought.  Good luck, and enjoy your new snake!

 
Member Comment 2/8/2012 9:31:04 AM

JWieczerza

I used to feed my snakes out of the cage for training purposes, until I obtained too many snakes... Now it would literally take a day with the procrastinators. I had the idea once to modify a cage to have a rat hole in the back for feeding purposes, where the idea to to train the snake that the front door opening doesn't mean food. That's it really. Also I use my hook 100% of the time to pull them out so once they feel the metal and shape they know it's not meal time. Can get a little messy though. Especially with live Jumbos those things aren't no joke. Regardless of what everyone else's "humane" practice ideas involve I bludgen the prey in the cranium before feeding live. 1. because I'd rather be knocked out before suffocated to death myself, and 2. prey with teeth that big can do some serious damage to your snakeskin. So sometimes you end up cracking the cranium and you get a lot of blood everwhere. Especially with big constrictors that are just gonna squeeze more out. You gotta think of your boa as one big giant well trained muscle that can flex with extreme strength. So in that case I feed in the bathtub. On rush days I'll literally toss a F/T in there and they'll snatch it up and go to work. I had a big Suriname that would eat F/T off a paper plate without even constricting it. She'd just slither up and gulp it down. So another this is that with a snake that big I wouldn't worry about it ingesting a little substrate. All living things consume the earth where they live. Even primates that can actually feed themselves with hands drop their fruit and stuff on the ground and just pick it back up and eat it like nothing happened. It's a part of nature. Just make sure you're substrate is non toxic. I see little pieces of aspen in the scat all the time, nothign to worry about as long as it's non toxic.

 
Author Comment 2/8/2012 3:40:16 PM

visceralrepulsion

Nah, i agree that I probably won't be going with jumbo rats, because he's pretty hefty haha, and they only feed him an average adult rat every 2 weeks. Not sure why he's such a chunker. The substrate consumption thing I wasn't sure about because with smaller snakes it can be a problem causing blockages, etc. I have another question while we're at it that maybe someone can help with. If I find that I do infact need to use infared light to help maintain the ambient and warm enough cool side, does anyone know what watt bulb I should use for a 120G tank? I was going to order 100W, but I'd rather know for sure what works best. I don't want to have to turn around and order another bulb of a different wattage if the 100W is too much or too little. Like we've discussed, I may not need it, but for $7, i think it's safer to have it around and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Also, I've been looking at thermometers and hygrometers, and I found a cordless, 3 location sensor, combo. It's not made specifically for terrariums, but it has really good reviews, and I think it'd work by placing the sensors about in the tank- one under the bedding above the heatpad, one hung on the tank wall somewhere in the center, and one placed on the cool side. This would give me the temps of everywhere I need them with one device. The only downside is from what I understand you have to push a button on the main source to switch from each sensor. But the way I see it is the sensors could be placed in view for the cool and ambient temps, and I could leave the warm sides sensor on the main display's readout. What do you guys think? http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vxiZ9NtnL.jpg If you guys don't think this will work, can anyone suggest some good, accurate, and affordable (preferably) dual location thermometer/hygrometer combo?

 
Member Comment 2/8/2012 7:36:12 PM

CreepyCrawly

It would scare me even more to find flakes of aspen in my snakes' scat - that means that it isn't being digested at all, and if enough of it got into their system, it could cause a blockage.  Feeding a snake that's only been fed live before, it will probably still coil the rat, and could wrestle around with it.  A dry thawed rat won't be as likely to pick up shavings as ones thawed in water would, but depending on the snake they could still get a mouthful of shavings in them.  Even a wet rat rolled in dirt I wouldn't worry about as much as I would worry about shavings.  The dirt particle size is smaller, and less likely to lock together in the digestive tract of the snake, IMO. 

You could try tub feeding like you do with your smaller snakes, and see what he does.  If he's too stressed with so much "new", the worst that happens is that he doesn't take the rat (which I think is unlikely).  If that doesn't work, you could try feeding him in his cage, over a plate/tile/tub, what have you if you want.  I know that wouldn't work well with my guys, they move all over the place when swallowing.  I would start out trying to feed him how you want to feed him, and if that doesn't work, try something else.  If he misses a meal, or eats a few days late, it's not the end of the world.  If he misses two, it still isn't the end of the world.  But I am sure that within a couple of tries you'll find a way that works for both you and him. 

As far as the heat bulb, that's really hard to say since I haven't ever attempted to use a 120G tank, and I don't know what temperature you keep the room he's gonna be in at normally.  I set up a bearded dragon for my neice last month, and it took a 150W basking bulb to get the hot spot at 95 degrees in a 20 gal long, with the basking platform about 6" from the bulb - but they also keep their house pretty cool (or that's how it feels to me).  Also, different styles of bulbs can put out different amounts of heat.  I lost an emmy that way once.  Her heat bulb went out, so I ran to the pet store, and they didn't have one like the old one I had over her, so I got the only bulb they had in stock of the same wattage, thinking same wattage would put out the same heat.  WRONG.  I went home, got it installed in the fixture and within 15 minutes she was writhing on the floor of her cage.  I removed her immediately, and could feel that it was warmer than it should have been.  I put her in a clean, empty tub, with wet (lukewarm water) paper towels, and in just a minute she stopped writhing around and went limp.  I checked the temperature in the cage, and while the new bulb was in the "hot spot", the cold side of the cage was 105 degrees!  The thermometer I was using didn't go high enough to determine how hot the hot spot was.  With the old bulb, the hot spot got to 91 degrees, and the cool side was 78.  So just because two bulbs are the same wattage doesn't mean they have the same heat output.  You may have to try different bulbs and different wattages to get the desired temps.  You could always go with a higher wattage bulb than you think you'll need (they usually aren't much more expensive than the lower wattage ones), and get a cheap rheostat for it, to "dim" it to the right temperature.  Rheostats aren't super expensive either.  I only have under tank heating on the hot side, and the other side takes care of itself - but then again I'm not using a tank with a screen lid.  You may consider covering some of the screen to reduce heat and humidity loss.  You could use pieces of wood, pieces of plexiglass, a towel, or even saran wrap.

I don't know about the thermometer/hygrometer you're looking at.  It's nice that it's wireless.  Does it have min/max readings?  Those are important to me.  I like being able to see the highest and lowest each side of the cage has gotten.  The middle temperature I wouldn't really care about.  I got the ones I use at Home Depot or Lowes.  Of course mine takes the "outside" temperature at the end of a probe, which is on a wire, and so the snakes dislodge them occasionally and I have to put them back.  Your guy may push around the one over the heat pad, so you might want to see if it will fit under the tank next to the heat pad.  It would show a slightly warmer temperature being on the same side of the glass, but it wouldn't get moved.  Anything inside the cage will likely get pushed around some.

 
Author Comment 2/9/2012 11:40:12 AM

visceralrepulsion

Good advice, CreepyCrawly. I thinking I'm going to do some research on wattage/gallon size ratio for the type of bulb i was going to order. My house stays an ambient 70 degrees, so I wouldn't need to raise the temps for the cool and ambient area too much, but just a little. I'm hoping I won't need to use a bulb at all, but we'll see. For feeding I think I'm going to flip his sterilite tub hide right side up, or place a small shallow tub in there and dangle the rat above that, and see how that goes. If that doesn't go as planned I'll modify my routine bit by bit until it's efficient. I'm just discombobulated about thermometer/hygrometers since I've read both good and bad reviews about the same ones haha. I was going to buy just a R'Zilla thermometer/hygrometer for all my scalebabies, but I want to know my options first, and to know if that brand is even any good.

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