|
Q:
|
Bearded Dragon Substrate
|
|
In Relation To:
Daisy [BD-001-F]
|
|
|
Hey,
I'm keeping my Bearded Dragon on repticarpet in a 92qt tub, with a basking bulb about 5 inches away from the basking spot. It's like a 75w reptihalogen. What I'm worried about is that the repticarpet isn't enough for her to be completely stressless. I'm thinking I should use something like play sand, and have her in an aquarium.
My official question is: Is repticarpet really the best substrate I could have for Daisy?
Thanks!
Attached Photos:
|
|
Accepted Answer
|
7/13/2012 3:08:17 PM
|
|
LGray23
|
|
NEVER use sand for beardies. Ideally, tile or slate is good, keeps their nails short and easy to clean. I've also used non adhesive shelf covering, which is cheap and also easy to clean.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/13/2012 3:21:40 PM
|
|
Cenobite
|
|
I +1 the tile/slate suggestion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/13/2012 8:29:46 PM
|
|
Floof
|
|
+1 Leah. Don't use sand. Sand is evil. If you're worried about your dragon's stress level, give him a few good hiding places/things to lay under. For my dragon, it can be as simple as a little chunk of mopani wood leaning against the wall--just enough for him to crawl behind and "feel" safe, even though his butt is sticking out for the world to see.
Sand won't make him feel significantly more secure, it'll just present all kinds of new health risks. Like Leah suggested, slate tile is an awesome dragon substrate, and so is non-stick shelf liner. I have used both for my dragons (currently using shelf liner, because my male has this uncanny skill for pooping right on the crack between tiles), and they both work beautifully. And the tile even looks really good.
As far as the tank idea, if you want to move him to a tank, by all means, do. But it won't make him any more secure-feeling to move him from an opaque tote, where he knows nothing is going to come at him unexpectedly, to a tank with clear glass sides where suddenly his "territory" and, likewise, the potential space for a predator to inhabit increases from the tub to everything he can see. As long as the tub is BIG ENOUGH (meaning, *bare minimum* 3 feet long, 1.5 ft wide) and the dragon is comfortable in it, I don't see any pressing need to switch him to a tank... Not that moving him to a nice big tank or even a proper vivarium isn't a good idea (because it is), but it isn't necessarily vital...
Just my $.02.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/13/2012 8:31:35 PM
|
|
Floof
|
|
Sorry, just realizing now that it's a she, not a he. You'd think the name would've clued me in, buuut... Anyway, yeah, no sand. Never sand. Ever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/14/2012 6:25:22 PM
|
|
Skelegirl
|
|
+1 to the "sand is bad" advice. Repticarpet isn't all that great either. You can never fully disinfect it, and it's prohibitively expensive to replace it each time they poop. I use slate tile for mine and it's great. Easy to clean and it retains heat nicely, not to mention it keeps their nails filed down. Plus, they're cheap...I think the 12"x12" tiles were $1.50 ea at Home Depot.
If you want to reduce stress, you might try putting a background on the back and sides of your tub or tank. My beardie used to jump and scratch all over his tank until I covered the back and sides. You can use aquarium backgrounds, or even just butcher paper or pieces of construction paper taped together. If you want to get fancy, I've been really liking decorative window films...the opaque ones still let in light, but the critters can't see out.
As far as tub v. tank, I've never seen the point in keeping an animal you want to see in a tub.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/17/2012 9:26:05 AM
|
|
Eaglegeckos
|
|
I have a german giant male that I have had for 8 years and hes been on sand his hole life. Heck they live on sand in the wild. I could see using paper towel when the are small but other than that I like sand and will keep using it for now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/17/2012 4:30:46 PM
|
|
Floof
|
|
No one is saying it can't be done. Many people have kept their dragons on sand without any apparent issue for years. Likewise, though, a great many people have tried sand and had it end in disaster--or near disaster--with babies and adults alike. The risk is ALWAYS there, and it comes down, simply, to whether you want to risk your dragon's life to house it on sand.
Let's look at some of the Pro's and Con's of sand.
Pros: -Easy to scoop poop -Dragons like to dig around in it -Some people like how it looks (though personally, I think sand is hideous--to each his own, I guess)
Cons: -Unsanitary! All that urine and otherwise wetness seeps in to the sand and to the bottom of the tank, and there is no getting EVERY granule of sand that's been contaminated by their fecal matter when they defecate without just changing out the whole tank. -Impaction risk! Dragons like to "taste" their surroundings. They investigate with their tongue. And what happens when a dragon licks sand? That's right, whether they mean to eat it or not, inevitably, at least a small amount gets stuck to their tongue and ingested. For an especially curious dragon, these small amounts can quickly build up into a life-threatening blockage. And then you feed them on that sand. Even if you have a separate feeding dish, dragons are very adept at dragging everything you DON'T want on their food, into that food dish. So, their greens, roaches, etc, get covered in sand while they're eating. And crickets--if you let a dozen crickets loose in the viv, your dragon is probably going to get a mouthful of sand with every cricket. And god forbid he misses when going after a cricket--then he'd wind up with a mouthful of sand and not even a cricket for his trouble. And there's no denying for one second that these situations present a very real risk. -Sand is a very dessicating substance. It tends to suck the moisture out of whatever sits on it. This might be less of a concern for the dragon itself than, say, the dragon's salads, any mammal, or a more humid-climate reptile.. But it still has its effect on dragons. -If you choose to have a water dish in your enclosure, guess what? It'll be full of sand, too. -Infections. Sand can get into crevices and cause irritation resulting in infection, without a doubt. Most notably is if they get sand in their eyes. Also a very real risk is if they get sand in their vent, or if, for whatever reason, your male everts his hemipenes and it retracts covered in sand. I recently was lurking at a local Herp Society's facebook page, and saw a discussion regarding a rescue dragon who had been on sand. This exact thing had happened to him. If I recall correctly, they ended up having to amputate at least one, possibly both, hemipenes.
Now, maybe it's just me, but I'm thinking the "cons" outweigh the "pros" pretty heavily here. And this is even assuming the statement of them living on it in the wild is correct.
Which, it isn't.
First, consider this. A fair part of the bearded dragon's diet is vegetation. And where does vegetation generally NOT grow? In loose sand/sand dunes/etc, the very areas you're suggesting they inhabit. So the likelihood alone of that being a true statement suddenly takes a plummet, just by taking into consideration what their natural habitat must be able to provide.
Secondly, not all "desert" is sand. It's very easy to make that assumption, I know, but a desert can be anything from said sand dunes to hard-packed soil. A lack of sufficient rainfall can create both such habitats. So do not assume, just because Beardies are from the "desert," that that means they spend their lives rooting around in loose sand.
Third, captivity is NOT the wild. Without a doubt, our dragons aren't getting the same kind of exercise (or even UVB exposure, and other factors) as they would in their natural habitat. The wild lifestyle with its constant state of movement helps to loosen and pass any blockages that DO form, as opposed to the more sedentary lifestyle of a captive dragon, which lends itself to a higher likelihood of blockage and resulting impaction.
Finally, actual research. If you actually do a google search regarding the natural, wild habitat of bearded dragons, you'll discover that their range does not necessarily even include a "sandy" desert. This is an interesting article discussing a portion of the Bearded Dragon's natural range, from someone who has been there: http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/art-bearded-dragons-natural-environment.html A quote from the article: "Notice also the ground itself - a hard baked surface with a scattering of small rocks and over everything a fine layer of red dust." (Note that "hard baked surface" is not synonymous with "loose sand.") Many sources focusing more on captive care also briefly discuss their natural environment. From: http://www.the-lizard-lounge.com/content/library/wild-lizards/bearded-dragon.asp "The natural Bearded Dragon habitat where they are commonly found is desert and scrub, but they can also found in open woodland areas" (Note that scrublands and woodlands do not consist of sand but rather well- to hard-packed dirt.)
I hope this helps clear things up for you, because sand truly is NOT at all an appropriate substrate for a bearded dragon. If you choose to continue using sand... Well, that is your decision and, if someday things turn south and your boy succumbs to the inherent risks of sand, it was your choice that led to it.
But, please, do not readily recommend sand to others without at least doing the proper research. Otherwise, you're no better than those people who insist that bearded dragons HAVE to have company or they'll be lonely, or that they do just FINE in a 20 gallon tank their whole lives, or that UVB is totally unnecessary, because "I've been doing it for X years, and my dragon(s) isn't dead yet, so it must be right!" or because "The pet store told me to do that, and they're always right!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/17/2012 9:34:25 PM
|
|
EmilyMilton
|
|
I used paper towels. Again, +1 Leah for the "no sand". She got her play time with us on the hard wood floors and her nails were just fine. Papers towels were INSANELY easy. Besides, she was more or less "potty trained" and never ever used the bathroom in her home. Silly little dragon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/17/2012 9:50:57 PM
|
|
zooguy731
|
|
ive kept bearded dragons, uromastyx and leopard geckos for the last 15 years on play sand without issue. i also keep snakes in naturalistic setups. In my opinion i feel people sometimes forget that in the wild these animals are constantly ingesting dirt and sand on a regular basis. The naturalistic route has always worked for me and i think its much nicer to look at than newspaper, tiles, astroturf.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
7/17/2012 10:33:37 PM
|
|
Floof
|
|
Zooguy: That's all well and good for you, but the fact of the matter not everyone is as lucky as you have been. Again, the risks exist, and are very, very real. You may choose to take the risk, but not everyone does... And, moreover, you shouldn't underestimate the risk, or tell less experienced keepers that there aren't risks, because there ARE.
Regarding the ingestion of dirt, etc in the wild: See my previous comment. Yes, any animal will probably ingest some form of dirt in their lifetime, but, at least in the case of dragons (and pretty sure in the case of leopard geckos, too--couldn't comment on Uros, though I imagine they're in a similar boat as dragons since they're herbivores and plants don't grow in sand dunes), they DON'T live on sand in the wild, not in the sense that people replicate in their habitats. They live on hard packed dirt. Is there a chance that they will ingest some of this dirt? Yes. Is there still some loose stuff on the surface? Yes. But is it 3" or more of sand, like so many keepers use and claim is so "natural," that they're running around on? No! The chances of a wild bearded dragon ingesting a mouthful of dirt are a lot lower than the chances of a captive dragon kept on sand getting a mouthful, because, in the wild, that dirt is hard packed, not loose. That dirt is a nice solid ground that takes some effort to dig up and swallow, not a bunch of loose particles that take no effort whatsoever to bite down on a mouthful.
Even if wild dragons did live on a loosely packed dirt/sand in the wild and faced constant impaction risks, again, they are constantly moving, getting a great deal of exercise. Again, exercise and movement is incredibly helpful with getting things "moving," so to speak. A wild dragon who's constantly on the move is a lot less likely to suffer from impaction than a captive dragon, simply for the fact that that constant movement aids in getting potential blockages to pass safely. Our captive dragons tend to be very sedentary compared to their wild counterparts. A large part of that is the guarantee of food and proper environmental conditions at all times. Another part of that is simply that they take their vast, open range, and replace it with only 3-4 feet of space (maybe up to 6 feet for those lucky dragons with owners who decide to splurge).
So, yes, you're correct. These animals will ingest dirt, etc in the wild. It's inevitable. But this isn't the wild. And moreover, again, you are not replicating wild conditions by using SAND!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You are not logged in. If you would like to participate (it's free!), you must log
in, or Become a Member!
|
|
|
|
Most Popular Tags
Ball
,
Ballpython
,
Bci
,
Behavior
,
Boa
,
Breeding
,
Buying
,
Caging
,
Care
,
Chondro
,
Cornsnake
,
Crested
,
Crestedgecko
,
Eggs
,
Feeders
,
Feeding
,
Feedingproblems
,
Gecko
,
General
,
Genetics
,
GTP
,
Health
,
Heating
,
Humidity
,
Identification
,
Illness
,
Incubation
,
Infection
,
Leopardgecko
,
Mites
,
Morelia
,
Morph
,
Morphs
,
Parasites
,
Python
,
Regius
,
Respiratory
,
Shedding
,
Snake
,
Substrate
|
Latest Questions
|
|
|
|
points:150
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
More Questions
|
|
|
Latest Answers
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
|
|
|
points:150
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
More Answers
|
|
|