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Q:
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Can a snake be allergic to rats?
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In Relation To:
Casanova
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So, question for all of you out there. Mr. Casanova, my B.c.c., seems to regurge everytime I attempt to switch him to rats. He was taken to the vet, and I did cultures, crypto tests, fecals, etc. and ruled out any parasite or infectious reason for regurge. First attempt was 2 adult mice to a weaned rat, and he waited a few days, than regurged. I withheld food for 2 weeks, and gave him an adult mouse - no problems. Tried a weaned rat and a mouse, and regurged the rat, not the mouse.... So I bought him jumbo mice for now, but what do I do?
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Member Comment
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12/10/2008 4:41:11 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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BCC s are kinda prone to regurge......I would feed him smaller prey items..... I would say it has more to do with the size rather than the species of the animal.........
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Author Comment
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12/10/2008 4:45:26 PM
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Katie M
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I was thinking that too, but he even regurged a rat pup, which is smaller than the xl mice he's on
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Member Comment
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12/10/2008 5:20:07 PM
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amarilrose
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Hmm. I was thinking like Kai, until I saw your last here....
Are all the rats you have fed from the same source? If it's possible maybe try another source, just in case they are carrying something that doesn't agree with him. I kinda doubt that this is an actual allergy, but I sure don't claim to know it all!
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Member Comment
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12/10/2008 5:21:17 PM
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amarilrose
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Maybe stick with XL mice until you can (without risking prey size problems) try tiny baby bunnies?
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Author Comment
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12/10/2008 5:27:55 PM
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Katie M
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All the rats are from RodentPro, I could definitely try another source, that's a good idea. I've also been trying to figure out where to get rabbit babies small enough, or guinea pig babies, but that's a bit bigger than he's on now. The vet was saying he's a bit small for his age, but I also don't want him growing to fast and having the typical B.c.c. problems. I just feel bad because he could eat something bigger than the XL mice, and always seems so hungry
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Member Comment
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12/10/2008 10:02:19 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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Well I know mice are easier for snakes to break down......I would stick with them until the snake gets bigger..... I've always heard it's better to use restraint when it comes to feeding bcc s
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Member Comment
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12/11/2008 3:22:05 AM
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amarilrose
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Katie, how many mice are you feeding him at a time? How big is he?
Kai, how many XL mice do you think he should be eating?
With my mouse-addicted Ball Pythons, I was feeding 4 XL mice per feeding -- but that was to give my wallet a break -- they can and have handled eating 5 XL mice just fine... the (live) mice cost me $1.50 each though. :( Highway robbery, and hence my excitement for just possibly being able to breed my own mice again... *sigh*
Katie, I do think that if he keeps them down, multiple XL mice would be the best nutrient source you could give him to grow on -- adult animals (due to accumulated time) store more vitamins & minerals in their bodies. As far as another prey source, there are a bunch of online/bulk rodent suppliers. I have only used American Rodent Supply thus far, and have been very happy with both their product and their customer service. There are probably some comapnies that would be located closer to you though. Best of luck to you!
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Accepted Answer
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12/11/2008 12:49:26 PM
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Sonja K. Reptiles
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(I believe most would consider us to be conservative feeders, overall. With this being said, I feel the issue here is a combination of things.)
First, BCC (and dwarf varieties of BCI) need to be fed differently than the typical Columbian BCI.
Remember, BCC take more like 4 - 6 yrs to mature vs. 2 - 3 yrs. for a BCI.
BCC are also prone to regurge issues. If it happens too often, it may develop into a chronic problem - not good.
I checked your tracking on him... After your snake has regurged, it's best to wait a good 2 weeks before offering another meal. At that time, the prey item offered should be one that is smaller in size, and only one item. If that goes okay, wait another 2 weeks, offer smaller again, continue this for a few times in 2 week intervals, then gradually work back up. The snake may eat sooner than that, but it may do more harm than good. Regurging again can lead to issues with dehydration, too.
I do not believe that feeding him 3 adult mice within a 1 or 2 day time frame is in his best interest. I believe with BCCs it's also best to feed a size that doesn't leave any kind of noticeable buldge. Again, remember, don't feed them the same as your Columbians. One prey item every 7 - 10 days should be more than enough for a BCC that is under 2 years old.
I'm sure you only want to do what's best for him... I think cutting back on his feedings and getting him back on track is what will be best for his health.
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Member Comment
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12/11/2008 3:46:20 PM
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amarilrose
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Thank you Sonja. I suspected the BCC's would need a different approach -- that's why I kinda asked questions within my suggestions. :) Thank you for answering the both of us.
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Author Comment
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12/11/2008 4:25:25 PM
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Katie M
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Yeah, I just weighed Casanova in at 744 grams, and 36 inches long. I was following the advice of my herp vet with the feeding shedule - not all the regurges were labeled, I've gotten behind. I know they're slower to mature as bccs thenbcis, but even my vet was concerned about how small he was...
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Member Comment
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12/11/2008 9:53:03 PM
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Sparkle
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Just curious, have you tried an african furless rat pup? I remember reading a thread once where a snake had developed a sensitivity to rat fur... Probably a rare condition, but hey, worth a try....
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Member Comment
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12/12/2008 3:00:22 AM
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bwaffa
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Just finished a graduate level course in immunology and I'm disappointed to say that I'm no more the wiser regarding the intricacies of the reptile immune system. But this much is for sure: vertebrate immune systems are insanely complex; for every rule there's an obscure loophole or exception. Although a sensitivity to a constitutive part of the diet is not a trait that would stick around long in a wild population, anything is possible in captivity (though I still have my doubts about an allergy...). There's a lot of good advice to work with here. Good luck and keep us posted!
By the way -- Scott just wrote a blog about a rodent distributing company I wasn't familiar with, but they apparently carry African Soft Fur rats. While your'e trying all your dietary options, you might consider that one too?
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Member Comment
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12/12/2008 8:51:06 PM
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Sigfried
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Have you tried live rats? If you haven't, and you aren't force feeding your snake, give that a try. You never know.
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Member Comment
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12/13/2008 12:26:27 AM
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aSnakeLovinBabe
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the same thing happened with my BP girl Splat. She's sensitive to rats for some reason and did ot keep either of the two that she ate down. I am afraid to try again.
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Member Comment
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12/17/2008 2:25:13 PM
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amarilrose
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Katie, do you know how much actual experience your vet has with BCC?
Herp vets in general are so few and far between that a lot of them may have great general knowledge and still be lacking a lot of specific husbandry information -- realistically you just can't expect them to know everything about every reptile's needs -- he may think your BCC is small because he is thinking in terms of normal BCI growth, or any other standard that may or may not apply. My point with all of this is that I wouldn't get too worried about your vet remarking that he thought your boa was small for his age, until you hear the same from some genuinely experienced BCC keepers and breeders.
As far as prey options, any of the rodent supply companies that I am aware of deal in bulk, so I wouldn't say that you should try the African Soft-Furred Rats for the first time from one of these bulk distributors -- you could end up wasting a lot of money. You could probably go to a Reptile Swap and buy a smaller group of ASF's in some way or another, if you want to go that route to try them out. Otherwise, after Sonja mentioned it, I remember hearing other BCC people say that you should feed items that don't make a noticeable bulge, so that is probably a good rule. XL mice probably won't hurt your guy if you stick with those for a while longer, especially until he quits the regurgitating! For that matter, if the mice work, you probably want to change as little as possible (prey wise) until his stomach is a little more predictable. (That's a question for comment from experienced BCC folks) :)
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Member Comment
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12/17/2008 2:33:49 PM
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amarilrose
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...one more thing... I think I've made it clear that I am not actually experienced with BCC -- I'm just really interested in them and have been reading up on them for a few years, and I like to think I've got a lot of general snake husbandry experience. That being said, does your Mr. Casanova still look like he does in your posted pictures, in terms of his body condition? Please, anybody jump in and correct me if I am wrong here, but he looks great to me, if not even a little on the fat side. It's a little difficult to accurately gauge body condition score from a photo alone, but from what I am seeing, I sure don't think he's skinny or under conditioned -- so he shouldn't need to eat any more at a time, just more reliably. :)
That's a good thing, if I am right. :) Bets of luck!!
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Author Comment
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12/17/2008 4:14:58 PM
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Katie M
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Thanks for the encouragement, Rebecca. Casanova's picture was taken a few weeks ago, but yes, he looks much the same. My herp vet used to breed Bci's, but I didn't ever ask him about his experience with Bccs, so I'll ask him a few more questions. He's doing awesome on XL mice, so I'll stick with those. There's a show in Portland on January 24th, and I'll see if I can't get a few of the african soft furred rats, and see if it makes a difference. As far as the suggestion to try live, I'd rather not. Casanova was hard enough to switch to f/t, and I don't really want to go back and start all over :) Thanks though
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Member Comment
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1/9/2009 11:40:36 PM
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Author Comment
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1/10/2009 12:48:29 AM
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Katie M
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I've got him on 2 XL mice at a time, and he's loving it - he's growing again, and is in shed right now, but that never stops him from eating :) That said, I'm going to pick up a few African Soft Fur rats at the show on the 24th (we have shows only a few times a year in the NW) - my soonest opportunity since the post. We'll see how that goes! Until then, I have a handle on a few rabbit breeders and I have some small guinea pigs that I can try once he's big enough, assuming it is just the rats causing problems. Thanks for checking in on my handsome little man :)
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