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I want an ATB, but I have questions

Posted By:

amarilrose

A few months ago, Tea asked a question on here about ATB’s and got some good leads on information about them.

     Tea’s question: Amazon Tree Boas... tell me EVERYTHING!

     http://www.iherp.com/Answers/ReptileProblem.aspx?Id=1866

     Tuesday, October 28, 2008 @12:52 PM

I used Tea’s posted question as a starting point. I know this gets long, so I apologize. Here are some questions I still have:

Enclosure size. I’ve only seen one person state their opinion on an actual enclosure size for an adult ATB, which was 36 x 24 x 24. Any thoughts on this? Also, since this is a fairly active species, are there drawbacks to putting a neonate in an enclosure that is appropriately sized for an adult? Obviously in some species like Ball Pythons, this would be extremely stressful to a young animal, but I’m thinking that for such a highly arboreal species this may not be the case? What kinds of hides do they like? I’ve read about the “3 points of contact” idea about perches. Does this species just prefer to perch in a branch fork instead of curling up in a hide (ever)? What kind of cage do you think is best?

Temps. I read an article (http://www.urbanjungles.com/atbbasics.htm) from 2001 that mentioned using Pro-Products heat panels (http://www.pro-products.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8&Itemid=30) to maintain proper temperatures for these guys, without drying out the enclosure. Any thoughts? I’ve also read several contrasting opinions about ideal temperature ranges for this species. What do you think is ideal?

Humidity. How do you maintain humidity around 70%+? I’m scared of the idea of something bad happening if I were to get one of these guys and then go away for a few days – can they survive a lapse in humidity like that, or should I get an automated humidity control of some sort?

Price range. What is a normal price range on garden phase animals, WC vs CBB? What about red color phase animals? I've attached pictures I found on the internet of ATBs that appeal to me.

Color. How much and what kind of color change can I expect to see when I am looking at a beautiful neonate or juvenile animal? Does the way their color changes vary just as much as their general appearance? I really like the look of the softer grays and creamy-coffee-browns I’ve seen in some garden phase ATBs. Some of these animals have some very striking (to me) contrasting marks on their spine, in white and even pink and coral colors. Can I expect these colors to fade to brown or stay into adulthood?

Breeding. How commonly are these guys actually bred in captivity & how difficult is it to breed them? Not asking to leap into a project right now, but I want to get an idea if just anybody could do it. And… how do you sex an arboreal snake?

Attached Photos:


Points:	250
Topics:	Caging , Caging Plans , Heating
Tags:	ATB
Administrative:	Show/Hide

Accepted Answer

1/19/2009 5:45:30 AM

MegF

I am the one that has the enclosure size listed. I do not keep young animals in them. I house babies, just like any species, in rubbermaid tubs to avoid stress. They do better in smaller locations until they are large enough to handle a bigger enclosure. This of course varies among animals. Some are mellower than others and could move to a larger enclosure sooner. I use wide perches and boxes for them. I find with boxes, they just sit on top of them. I know Kathy love uses hide boxes in the winter with heat inside as she houses her Amazons outdoors. She removes all hanging plants and they use the hides, but for all practical purposes, the wide perch, or three point contact makes them content. Plenty of cover near the hide is appreciated too. I keep my amazons at around the same temps as the green trees. 82 on the warm side, with a gradient to the cool side of upper 70's. Babies are kept at higher constant humidity than adults, whose cages dry out during the day. They handle several days of no spraying as long as you have a good quality cage or plastic tub that keeps the humidity easily. A screen cage for instance, might get pretty dry in several days, but Amazons are very hardy for the most part and would survive it. I've seen worse conditions in the pet stores. I use heat panels (desert heat from Big Apple) mounted on the side wall to provide heat from top to bottom since these guys also spend a lot of time on the bottom as well as their perches. You can buy a garden phase import for around $80. Colored Amazons vary from around $150-outrageous depending upon the coloration. CBB cost more of course, but you're getting a healthy, established animal. Average for a nicely colored animal is around $3-$400 High red animals will cost much more. The babies change some in coloration as they age. Their adult coloration is usually set by about 18 months or so. Breeding is pretty straight forward. They are cycled for a few weeks with night drops and then the pair is placed together. I usually introduce the female to the male. I keep them together for a few months. Sometimes I seperate them for feeding or to give them a break from each other, other times, I feed in the same cage. Depends upon whether or not they are staying together a lot. I don't want one attacking another over food. Once the female is showing no more interest, I separate. Then you wait...forever. They have extremely long gestation. About 120 days after ovulation. Sexing is accomplished using probes. I don't sex my babies. I think they are too fragile, although some people do.

Member Comment

1/19/2009 8:13:55 AM

Sparkle

Great question, Amarilrose! I look at them from time to time as well... The colors are beautiful. Thanks Meg for the great info!

Member Comment

1/19/2009 12:55:46 PM

aaron

That green one is amazing... whose is that?

Member Comment

1/19/2009 7:15:39 PM

MegF

Green one? Are you talking about the one in someone's hand? That's a basic halloween phase. They are basically grey with normally some bright orange. That one there will be your typical garden phase when it matures. Here's another example of a couple from my litter- a little more orange than the average, but still you get the idea:
[IMG]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/MegFrancoeur/am080907jpg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/MegFrancoeur/09amm1025jpg.jpg[/IMG]

Author Comment

1/20/2009 10:12:16 AM

amarilrose

The "green" looking one in the pictures I attached was from a German website, and I don't read German, so I can't tell you anything else about it. :)

Meg: I really like the look of some Garden Phase animals, like ones that I pictured in the softer browns and grays. That isn't what the "green" looking "Halloween Phase" would mature into is it? I liked your pics. The second one looked redder to me. Did you already sell those babies, or have you gotten to see them change any? I am very curious about color change with these guys.

Also, I asked about pricing of Garden Phase for WC and CBB because at the last show I went to (a few months ago now), I saw several Garden Phase animals that I thought were gorgeous for $50. At such a low price, I was assuming they were WC. I would much prefer to get CBB if I can, but I want to be able to tell the difference between a good deal on a CBB and a WC that somebody may be spinning stories about ("well it was bred by this guy I know..."). Thank you very much for the price range estimates! It makes me feel less lost when I look around. :) I know a lot of people don't seem to think very highly of the Garden Phase, but in the right color schemes, I really like their look! What are CBB Garden Phase usually priced at?

On sexing, I kinda guessed it would be probing, but I also thought they looked far too fragile. Once these guys reach a mature size, can you visually tell their sex any easier than with another species? Would males develop visible hemipene bulges?

Thanks for the answers! I want to get into ATB's, but not before I know what I am doing!! :)

Author Comment

1/20/2009 10:17:52 AM

amarilrose

Oh, and what is a good sized enclosure for a neonate or a juvenile ATB?

Assisted Answer

1/20/2009 5:31:26 PM

MegF

Yes, the Halloween phases tend to change into Garden phase adults. These Halloween phase babies I have are a lot more orange under the grey. I don't know if they'll hold some of that color into adulthood or not. I sold one of them (09) but I have two others. I haven't noticed that you can tell one or the other easier. Males don't shed sperm plugs that I've noticed like a chondro will, so you can't use that. Probing seems to be the only reliable way. $50 is definitely an import. I've priced my Halloween phase animals higher than some you might find, only because they have so much color under the normal color phase. If you are interested, e-mail me and I'll let you know what I'm asking and we'll work something out. I house neonates in a shoebox sized tub, then move to a medium sized rubbermaid tub. Perhaps 16L X 12W X 14H...something like that. I'd have to measure the tub to tell you for certain.

Assisted Answer

1/21/2009 6:13:44 AM

LdyDrgn

ATB's are great snakes. Hope I can help here some:

Enclosure size: For babies I use shoebox sized tubs with a crossed perch. Our adults are in tall blanket box sized tubs. Not sure on the quart size... As long as there are plenty of places to hide (like a thick covering of silk vine around all perches for security) the only drawback I see to housing a baby in an adult sized enclosure besides possible stress would be "where the heck is it??" LOL They can coil up pretty tight sometimes and you may have trouble locating a baby among all the hidey places.

Temps: It's a bit cooler up in the trees where they live so you want temps to be no greater than 85, no lower than 75, ambient.

Humidity: Using storage tubs is great for holding in heat/humidity. Placing a water bowl partly or wholly over the heat source will create whatever humidity you need. Just be sure to have plenty of air holes along the top and sides because too high humidity is not good. Use a digital hygrometer to monitor levels.

Price range: We got our red male as a CBB baby for $250, and that was 2 or 3 years ago. Prices have dropped considerably. You can usually find a nice CBB Garden phase or Halloween for around $50-$75 now that the colored Amazons are gaining more popularity. Color phases like the ones you posted above shouldn't run you more than $150. We were selling solid orange/yellow babies for $150... *shrug*

Coloration: Really varies! You can never truly tell which way they are going to go. Some dark red babies will lighten to a dark orange, some dark orange babies deepen to a red. Even their eye color will change! In Garden and Halloween phases, the deep orange/red color generally changes to a light grey or even a beautiful light cream giving it a high contrast look. It's always a mystery. ;) That's part of their charm!

Breeding: I wouldn't say they are difficult to breed. The cooling period is important, and the timing. The hardest part I would say is the WAITING! And because they have such a long gestation, you can only (safely) breed a female no more often than every 2 years. Oh, and getting some of the babies to eat can be a real challenge, too..... lol. Not a lot of people are patient enough for this, lol.

Still, baby Amazons are a ton of fun, the lil toothy noodles they are, bless their pointy lil heads!

Author Comment

3/22/2009 3:28:06 AM

amarilrose

Oh geez, I didn't realize I hadn't closed this question out. I was just checking out the Iherp Answers dashboard thingy, and saw that I had left one post open. Sorry everyone, and thank you all very much for your input! I am so getting one (or more) of these this summer!

Author Comment

9/29/2009 3:05:50 AM

amarilrose

...well in case anybody is interested and maybe you didn't already see, I now have 3 ATB's, and everybody is thriving quite well! :D I've also joined the Amazon-Alliance forum, and I just felt like linking a thread here because I was looking through some old posts and this question stood out to me. :)

amazon-alliance.com/forums/index.php

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