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Frozen feeding questions

Posted By:

ScottF

We're trying to switch over to frozen mice and rats and we're finding it slow going. Neither the BPs or the RTB show much interest in them. I warm the food in a large pan of hot water and present them using a long pair of bbq tongs. I wiggle the food and if that doesn't work I warm it up again and let it sit in the feeding tub for awhile... but still no go. We even tried putting some beef broth in with the water to give the food scent.

And, assuming you guys can help us with that, where do you get your frozens from? Are there places to stay away from?

Thanks,
Scott & Sue


Points:	100
Topics:	Feeding
Tags:	Feeding, Frozen, Thawed
Administrative:	Show/Hide

Assisted Answer

2/3/2009 6:39:12 PM

aaron

When I cut over my BPs, I did a live, then a frozen in the same sitting... after a couple of weeks, just a super-heated mouse and they were all over it.

I've never tried the beef broth thing, but there should be plenty of scent from the mice/rats, not sure if that would only confuse them more.

Next time you feed, try frozen/thawed, at a very hot temp ... if they don't take, give em a live, then follow it up when they are in the mood with a F/T ... eventually they should get the idea.

Member Comment

2/3/2009 6:47:36 PM

Ivyna J Spyder

Try using a hair drier to warm up them up more after thawing. It also helps to spread the scent. I switched a BP over to f/t in the first try after it had only had live for 2 years before that. Can't hurt to try! (I get mine from The Mouse Factory, very nice quality. Big Cheese Rodent Factory is another good one. AVOID the stuff you get at Petco/Petsmart, they tend to be lower quality and your snakes can usually tell!)

Member Comment

2/3/2009 6:50:05 PM

Ivyna J Spyder

Also, I may be misreading, but do you thaw them IN the water? As in are they actually getting wet and soggy? I'm no expert, but I know my BP won't touch a soggy rat- so maybe yours are like that too, haha. Make sure you're thawing them in a plastic bag or something.

Member Comment

2/3/2009 7:45:57 PM

Kaiyudsai

Yep... don't thaw them in water.... all the scent washes off... thaw them in a pan at room temp till thawed completely...then seal them in a zip loc and place them in hot tap water..... 5 minutes is good for mice... 10 for rats.... also try just leaving it in the cage and close it up and walk away/.. check back an hour later... I have a boa and a bloob pyth that wont eat using the typical dangle/strike method

Member Comment

2/3/2009 7:46:27 PM

Kaiyudsai

If not you could get some of that chick down for them from aaron...LOL

Member Comment

2/3/2009 8:45:26 PM

FyreFocks

You could also try thawing the frozen food directly on top of the snakes' cages. Ive only got 1 snake that hasnt switched to F/T, though, to be fair, its a baby hognose.

Member Comment

2/3/2009 9:10:02 PM

Mongrel Kitty

All of this is good advice. Let them get a little hungry too! I'm surprised the RTB didn't take it. The bp's aren't that surprising. I have heard of using chicken broth (and have tried this with great results) but never beef.

But my input to add to all this good advice is... don't hesitate to let them get a little hungry... with patience it will happen. =) Good Luck

Member Comment

2/3/2009 9:21:00 PM

Sonja K. Reptiles

Are you thawing the rats and mice together?? If so, use a seperate bag for each, and see if that makes a difference. Also, if you haven't yet, you can try leaving the prey item in their cage overnight - opposite the heat source. If they continue to refuse, wait an extra week to make sure they are getting a bit hungrier than usual ; )

Accepted Answer

2/3/2009 10:23:29 PM

gfx

I have better luck weaning the over to f/t from live by getting them to take fresh killed first. Get some live ones, dispatch them, then give them immediately to your snake. If that works, let the recently dead sit for a few minutes the following week. If it doesnt, throw the recently dispatched in the freezer for later use and skip 2 weeks. Try again until they take recently killed, cooled recently killed, warmed up cooled recently killed or whatever other stage along the transition that's causing refusal. By transitioning, you'll probably have better luck that starting with f/t.

Or...one of my favorite tricks is to put fresh quail liver across the face of a very hot f/t critter. Works great.

If they've been good eaters so far, get them good and hungry, they'll probably transition without a whole lot of nonsense.

Member Comment

2/3/2009 11:47:32 PM

tradesokan

What I still do and worst 90% of the time is use a really warm mouse. Not too hot of course..and put it it a brown bag and put my snake in the bag. She snatches it the first moment she sticks her head in. I recommended it for all my friends and everyone one of them said it work. It worked pretty well for the BPs don't know about the RTBs though.

Assisted Answer

2/4/2009 3:00:37 AM

magsj387

I would say that I have always had the best luck just switching over slowly. Do prekilled for a week or two, so they get used to that, then start in with the F/T. Like said before, defrost and warm your rodents in zip loc bags, mice and rats seperate, and then offer them to your guys. You want them to stay dry, I'v had issues of my guys refusing anything thats "soggy". The other thing that I swear by for problematic feeders, is get yourself a tupperware container not much larger than the snake to sit comfortable in, put the snake and the prey into the container, and place it in a dark spot; cabinet, closet, under a blanket or towel, ect. and leave it be for a half hour to an hour or so undisturbed. I think you shouldn't have a problem after all the advice provided by everybody, good luck and let us know how it goes.

Member Comment

2/4/2009 7:56:43 AM

sonja

I don't have anything to add that someone hasn't already mentioned, but I am a huge advocate of feeding frozen/thawed, so good luck in your switch!

A summary of what I do: thaw in hot water (yes, I put them directly in the water then blot on a papertowel before feeding---all 40 of my snakes will eat f/t this way). When switching a new snake over, let them get a bit hungry before trying to feed. Tease with tongs, gently bop on the nose, and if the snake doesn't strike, leave the mouse in the feeding container with the snake over night.

Member Comment

2/4/2009 8:53:36 AM

JohnJohn

Kai has a "bloob python"? I want to see a pic of that. Must be a very rare species. Just kidding....couldn't resist.

I think all this advice is good. One other thing. Wiggling the mouse/rat around with some tongs can help sometimes, but don't overdo that. If the snake just doesn't want it he may get stressed out and this could just make him less likely to take it. I have one BP that is picky and likes to eat in private. He often will never touch any food until I leave the room.

Member Comment

2/4/2009 11:20:06 AM

gfx

I like thawing right in the water. Freezing dehydrates the meals, soaking directly helps rehydrate it to some degree. With animals who will freely drink from water bowls, this is probably a non-issue. If you have a critter that doesnt dig a water bowl too much, it may be a good idea to inject some liquid into the prey if it never touches water.

Member Comment

2/4/2009 11:26:19 AM

Kaiyudsai

I have done the water injection in the past for dehydrated animals.... I've injected them with pedialyte as well... worked well with emaciated imports

Assisted Answer

2/5/2009 9:49:05 PM

AAS

If the "small container" method works as well for adults as it does for my babies, you'll be pleased. But when they say "small" they mean it. As if you don't want the snake to be able to get very far from the feeder at all. The container should be opaque as well, and probably over a warm area. I've also heard of "braining" prey, which is just slittling open the skull a bit to let some potent odor/taste out, never worked for me. I always warm my rodents in water, just rub them dry briefly before feeding. For my snakes that take it quick off the tongs, doesn't matter a lick. For those that wait until later it seems to matter more, dry better then wet. I raised all my snakes on mice and rats so I can go with either. Kind of fun figuring out how a given snake likes his "prey" isn't it? The pickiest is this GTP Aaron sold me. Has to be offered lower in the enclosure than he is, has to be just the right temp, has to move a bit.... but when you get it right it's like buttering bread, so smoothe and easy.

Member Comment

2/5/2009 10:08:44 PM

magsj387

I find that "braining" (cutting open the head of fuzzies and pinkies to expose the brain to release certain enzymes) works very well for young problem feeders, mostly corns kings and balls. I usually slit one and put another live in there ....leave them in a dark place in the container and check in an hour. I've done this for several people with problem feeders that can't get to eat for weeks to months, and it has worked every time

Member Comment

10/6/2010 6:09:56 PM

dalvers63

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