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Q: Making a Living Vivarium?
Posted By:

samfred

For a while I have thought about making a living vivarium in one of my exo terras. Something similar to the frog ones you see with the water and nice green frog moss on the bottom. My question is what type of lights are needed to grow the moss and maybe some other small tropical plants like a bromalida or something? Also do you use fertilizer in these tanks? Is it safe for the animals? Anything else you can think of would be helpful!


Points: 100
Topics: Caging , Caging Plans
Tags: Greentreepython, Snake, Vivarium
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Member Comment 4/7/2014 1:31:33 PM

Aimee

no fertilizer if you're putting herps in it.

the first thing is to decide if you want to build a viv and then figure out what herps can live in it, or decide on a herp and then build a viv for it. if you want a full-on aquatic feature like a little pond and/or fountain, if you're talking something fairly small you'll probably be best with an amphibian. most geckos need a humidity cycle and can't handle constantly damp conditions.

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 2:23:00 PM

Killgore

Here's a nice write up about planted terrariums...

www.everythingreptile.org/planted-terrariums.html

As far as lighting goes my opinion is LED... led although expensive initially will pay off in the long run.  CFL and T5 lighting in the correct spectrum will work but they have disadvantages, mainly that they give off heat... Heat that will get trapped in the viv... Which will be dangerous for stuff like crested geckos... Also CFL and T5s degrade over time and need to be replaced often... About 9 months to a year and you have to get new ones. 

Metal Halide is great for growing plants but not suitable for a viv... They give off way too much heat... And they use a ton of electricity.

LED are energy efficient and give off much less heat... The correct spectrum would be good for growing plants in a viv... The spectrum does not appear to degrade however LED is still relatively new in the hobby comparatively... Another major drawback is cost.  

I have a "cheap" LED on my reef tank that cost me $600.00.  Expensive models go for thousands!  But if you have the money they'd be cool... Some systems are programmable to simulate lighting... Now how cool would that be to sync the lightning with a rainmaker and have sounds of thunder in the background?  Would be epic lol...

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 6:27:30 PM

Steadfast

I have about 15 tanks right now with dart frogs in them, this is kinda my specialty.. 

I have a short answer and a long answer. 

you can make a tank pretty basic and nice looking with the right supplies. there are tons of soil types you can use in the hobby but I suggest ABG mix. you will not need fertilizer and plants love it. if you are going to put plants it in you will also have to make a drainage layer. (if interested on a more step by step anyone can feel free to message me and check my last blog for what some of my tanks look like). different types of moss grows in different conditions (shag moss needs air flow and good light, java moss doesnt need air flow but needs to be WETTTTTT and good light) so that depends on the moss you go for. I can make some suggestions if interested. 

 

If you are going to keep frogs you'll have to decide what kids of frogs. tree frogs, dart frogs or whatever else.. then depending on the type is how you will have to build up your tank.. 

 

now a little info on lights 

Like Killgore touched up on there are many types of lighting you can use. idealy you want something that is going to help plants grow (I know with dart frogs they techinacally dont care about lighting and although a day/night cycle is important these guys live on the bottom of a forest floor which gets little to no light) now depending on what type of plants if also goign to determine the lights you want. 

 

T5 lights are great to get plants to grow and no matter what lights you use you are going to have to make sure that the color temp is around 6500k <-- this is important 

6500k is natural daylight and your plants need this 

CFL likes can be purchased in 6500k and thats great they are low watts and last a long time 

LED is the way to go in my opinion bright lights and very cheap to run. (the best brand I have seen are Jungledawl LED they are big in the dart frog hobby) there are many many many types of LEDs and that could be a thread in itself 

 

nowwwwww

with LED. CFL and T5s I said you need something in 6500k but....... what is also important for plant apperance is the Lumens this is a key key key factor wit growing Bromeliads. 

 Broms will lose their color if not under a good amount of lumens (usually with LEDs is 100 lumens per watt so if you have a 13W LED you will have about 1300 lumens on it also) the Lumens are pretty much the brightness of the light high lumens means brighter lights bromeliads need this. 

 

Im pretty sure I could keep going but I feel like im probably getting too in detail on this if you have any questions feel free to ask me 

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 6:36:04 PM

Steadfast

this is the same exact Bromeliad the green one is under a T5 light with low lumens the one that is turning pink is under a 13W LED with 1300 Lumens 

you can see the difference 

 

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 8:11:55 PM

aSnakeLovinBabe
I have a question to add to this. I have seen several sites that offer conversion kits to turn tanks into vertical enclosures that open in the front for Viv building. Which ones would you recommend, if you would at all?
 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 8:26:33 PM

Steadfast

oh I make my own vertical kit (I dont like the vent at the top since I need high humidity in my tanks so I do it all glass) Junglebox.net makes a good one with a vent they usually make them for 10 gallon tanks or 20h tanks to make them verts. if you check my last blog youll see I made a few verts even a little 2.5 gallon vert for a frog growout tank. 

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 9:35:02 PM

Killgore

Remember what I said above about the lightning/thunder/rain...

I found a video... this would be soooo cool... I know this will be a project for down the road for sure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSziIHkBXOE

 
Member Comment 4/7/2014 9:47:35 PM

Killgore

Wow... there are soo many videos with so many cool viv's... google youtube great terrarium build... this guy has a 5 part build that goes from start to finish... a lot of good information.

 
Author Comment 4/8/2014 4:10:51 AM

samfred
Steadfast please type away lol thanks for the info I will definitely send you a message. Kilgore that setup was cool, but I think it would give me a seizure lol
 
Member Comment 4/8/2014 6:08:09 PM

Steadfast

I think something else to consider is if you are going to make 1 really nice tank compared to if you are going to move into the direction of making many nice tanks. 

LEDS can become costly but if its for just a few tanks it will be well worth it.. if you end up addicted like me and now have racks of vivariums well you may need a more cost efficient lighting source. 

 
Author Comment 4/9/2014 11:08:42 AM

samfred
I found a 4 foot led strip for $59. It's 6500k and 20w, I don't know how many lumens though. I could hang it above the two cages is want to transform to a viv. I'd probably put two of them for the price.
 
Member Comment 4/9/2014 11:11:52 AM

Steadfast

eh I'd pass on that, its probably no where near enough lumens, I would look into getting 2 13W jungle dawn LEDs for that price the lumens on them would be enough im sure.. how big are the tanks?

 
Author Comment 4/9/2014 11:23:17 AM

samfred
24x24x18 and 24x18x18
 
Member Comment 4/10/2014 8:59:02 AM

Cenobite

Joe (Steadfast) is a good source for this info. Glad he chimed in.

 
Member Comment 4/10/2014 9:51:50 AM

Steadfast

its the little things in life that can make someones day, thanks George..

 

with two tanks that size I would put 2 LEDs on each tank.

 
Member Comment 4/16/2014 6:59:35 PM

NWBLOODLINES

If you need a good source for bromeliads, I just bought a bunch from this guy: http://www.bromeliadsforsale.com/index.html  . Awesome quality and service and CHEAP .

 
Member Comment 4/22/2016 9:27:12 AM

Cenobite

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