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Q: Possible Respiratory Infection In Albino Lavendar Retic
Posted By:

stej87_24

I take care of a friends retic collection, as he is currently having some eye difficulties. We noticed his Adult Female Albino Lavendar Retic is showing some signs of a possible respiratory infection. He purchased her roughly a month and a half ago from a breeder who claimed she was very aggressive but made "beautiful babies". Supposedly she has been eating chickens, and at one time even ate a pig from what the seller told us. Since he got her, she has refused any and all prey items. We have offered live rabbits, and chickens. We have offered fresh killed rabbits and chickens. We have offered stunned rabbits and chickens. We have even offered F/T rabbits and chickens. She is roughly 15-16 feet long, and seems to be constantly in some degree of shed. Recently (last few days) we have observed her to make a loud hissing/coughing noise at random moments. When she does this her mouth can be observed to be open. This can occur either when one of us is near her, or when we are in a completly different area of the room. There is no bubblint, and no apparent signs of a sever respiratory at the moment, but the hissing/coughing sound makes me wonder about a minor, or beginning stages respiratory. We live in an area where finding a snake vet is quite difficult.....and finding one who will deal with a 15 foot, potentially bitey female retic...............well you can imagine the difficulties we are facing there. I am aware that Baytril (sp?) is used for respiratories, and I am aware it is dosed based upon weight. My real question is as follows:
Can Baytril be used profilactically? As in, can we get it and administer based on a reasonable beliefe of a respiratory infection? Or, is this a medication with sideffects serious enough that it should only be used when a respiratory is in fact confirmed.
Secon question, if we could do this, and decided to do so, getting an accurate weight is somewhat problematic due to her somewhat aggressive nature, but a reasonable estimate could be made. If we were to estimate, and then based it on the lower side........so as not to overdose her.........would the medication be ineffective? Does the weight have to be exact in order for the dose to work at all?


Points: 150
Topics: Respiratory , Medications
Tags: Respiratory, Retic, Snake
Administrative: Show/Hide

Accepted Answer 5/28/2014 3:22:07 PM

Aimee

as far as weight, those recommendations are based on a range.

I would hesitate to just dose her up because a) if she has an RI baytril may not be effective, and b) baytril has been linked with kidney damage. 

if she's "constantly in some state of shed" I think that's a pretty major concern, as it can indicate severe dehydration or kidney problems. it's possible the popping and clicking you're hearing is stuck shed in her sinuses.

 

can you show us a picture, and give a lot more detail about husbandry? (temp ranges, etc)

 
Author Comment 5/28/2014 4:12:04 PM

stej87_24

It may take some time to get a picture because I wont be over there again till the end of the week, however I can give some more information. The entire room is heated as opposed to each individual enclosure as he has close to 30 snakes in that room. The room is at I believe 80-83 degrees. He has converted his entire basement (finished basement) into a large constrictor room where he keeps his Retics and Burms. There are two combo enclosures, each with three seperate enclosures stacked one on top of the other for a total of 6 large snake enclosures. Each one is 8X4X3 foot. She has a water dish in her enclosure. The water is checked daily and changed regularly. She as yet has defecated only once, as we have not gotten her to eat, and I have already removed her and cleaned the enclosure since then. The sound that I am describing really does sound like a cough, which I know is a strange way to describe it. It sounds like she is very forcefully hissing, or, coughing. It is less of a popping sound and more like somebody coughing to clear their throat, but hissy because afterall she is a snake. Her enclosure is made from 2X4 and Plywood construction, the floor of which is linoleum for easy cleaning. In her particular enclosure "Tower" On the top enclosure is a Female Albino Granite Burm about 12 feet long, then her in the middle at 15-16 feet. And the bottom houses a 17 foot Super Tiger Retic. All of these snakes appear and act healthy. My friend did acquire a Male Tiger Retic at around 13 feet long from the same individual which he got the Female Lavendar Albino, and he too appears to be in shed frequently. (Though he is MUCH more handleable and gentle than her) Also, the Male Tiger has eaten every time without fail. She appears to be the only problematic snake in the bunch. Any other information you need I would be happy to give. I can't think of anything else at the moment which would be relevant.

 
Assisted Answer 5/28/2014 4:17:48 PM

Sonja K. Reptiles

Has she shed in the last month and a half and gone right into another? Or do you think it's possible she has retained a full shed - which could be a sign of acute dehydration? Does her skin feel a bit "sticky" or look crinkly?

+1 on wanting to know the temps of the enclosure - both ambient and hot spot - and if you have a temp gun to get accurate ones, that'd be best. Also, what substrate? If not paper, I'd switch to it in the event something could be irritating to her.

 
Member Comment 5/28/2014 4:21:04 PM

Sonja K. Reptiles

We were posting at the same time...does he give them access to a heat source as well?

 
Assisted Answer 5/28/2014 4:21:36 PM

Aimee

hmm. you're sure it's not just pieces of one shed taking time to flake off? is it like she's almost done and then starts again? was there any time between? and how does his shed cycle compare?

I've seen back-to-back shedding twice. once in a friend's RTB, who was experiencing kidney failure as a secondary to IBD. another time, I had a young adult male snake that developed kidney disease and he shed very frequently in the months preceding his death, despite frequent soaking, subQ fluids, and 24/7 access to clean water. this is why shedding cycles like that make me so concerned.

I hope they're not carrying anything contagious :(

I also hope he has a way to bump her temps to about 90F? this will help bolster immune function.

 
Author Comment 5/28/2014 4:30:10 PM

stej87_24

Oh, I did forget one thing. The gentleman we got her from had her origionally in an enclosure which was only 6X2X3, and was painted. We got her out of that the moment she came to us as it was a painfully inadequate enclosure. A little history on her I forgot to mention, apparently this person we got her from had previously sold her to somebody else at a length of around 12 feet. He recieved a call from the buyer informing him that she had "Escaped and cornered his son, and had attempted to eat him" (I am not certain of the validity of this claim as this was knowledge gained third hand.) The man we got her from, decided that the at that time owner really should not have this snake and bought her back from him. Upon regaining possession of the snake he learned that the other guy had been feeding her pigs, (we do not know how big the pigs were) and chickens. At the show my friend purchased her from, he had requested that the seller let him see her, the seller said he would not get her out because "If I stick my hand in there she will take my ---insert explative--- arm off". We determined that we should get her, if for no other reason than to get her out of the possession of this individual who obviously wasn't taking adequate care of her. (Insanely small enclosure, stress, forceful handling due to fear, etc, etc, etc,)
Now, I have gauged her reactions to handling, starting with just having the enclosure open, then lightly touching her with a hook, then gently getting a loop of coil and pulling her with a hook, all the way to actual hands on handling of her. It is safe to say she isn't the "psycho" the seller claimed that she is, however when I did have her out to clean the enclosure she certainly did not want to be handled. No striking, no biting, but definately threw coils, and put up a bit of a fight trying to get away. Okay, so that I think is all of the history I can think of at the moment. Any other questions and I will see if I can answer them.

 
Author Comment 5/28/2014 4:36:02 PM

stej87_24

It may be possible that they are retaining shed, vs back to back shedding. The sheds come off little bits at a time. When she came in to the house she was not "in the blue" but shortly afterward did begin to shed. Now I have not seen her shed completley only to go back into shed. Same with the male. It may be that they are just having long shed times and some difficulty shedding completely. Each individual enclosure does have a heat lamp that is off at the moment, but could be turned on if needed. He does not have a heat gun, nor does he have a thermometer in the enclosures, however they are large enough that when I clean them I have to literally crawl inside, and they do feel the same temperature as outside the enclosures, so I would safely guess them to be within five or so degrees plus or minus the 80-83 of the room. Her skin does not seem sticky, it is very smooth, and feels very healthy where there is no unshed skin. There are some areas of wrinkled skin when she coils, but those seem to coincide with the unshed portions.

 
Member Comment 5/28/2014 5:52:07 PM

Aimee

Poor babies...I always assume that's itchy. How do her eyes look? Retained eye caps make it hard for them to see and can make them pissy and defensive? Hmm. I'd definitely turn on the lamp for her and keep a very close eye. Have you ever treated for RI with an F10 nebulizer? I haven't done this myself (I've been very lucky with illness and have only had a few fosters in the very early stages of RI) but many people I trust use this to treat RI at home if it's not progressed so far you have to give antibiotics.

If she's hungry, it could contribute to dehydration and crabbiness too.

 
Author Comment 5/28/2014 6:08:21 PM

stej87_24

She may be hungry...she hasnt eaten since we got her, but then again she won't take any prey item we offer, so idk. Her eyes look fine...no retained caps. I have never used F10 Nebulizer.....where would I find it, and how would I dose? And aslo.....from my description and the history I know of her, does this sound like an RI? I mean...to me it does, but it always helps to have a second opinion, I could be missing something. And yea....poor baby is right. This poor girl has apparently not had a good go of the last couple years. Im hoping with more frequent handling, (much gentler than she is used to,) that she will start to calm down. I am not by any means intimidated by her, and so I am less inclined to be as rough or forceful as her previous two owners most likely were. That coupled with her origionally cramped quarters is why I think she is so pissy. She hasn't ever had a enjoyable handling experience. The 18ish footer Female Tiger we have in the same place is a SWEETHEART. She comes right up to you, and then stops moving to allow you to pick her up. I almost want to start using her as an education snake if I can. 

 
Author Comment 5/28/2014 6:11:07 PM

stej87_24

Of all the snakes I have worked with Retics are by far my most favorite, so I have a special soft spot for her, partly because she is a retic, partly because she is a gorgeous retic, and partly because she hasn't had a great experience with people. I feel sad for her, and I just want to hug her and nurse her back to the healthy sweet snake that Im sure she once was.

 
Member Comment 5/28/2014 6:16:28 PM

Aimee

I don't know how, but I've asked a friend to come help. I'm sure Sonja probably knows too...

 
Member Comment 5/31/2014 11:44:10 PM

abi21491

I have experience with F10 nebulizing, it can be very useful. You need to get some F10SC (clear liquid not green) and a nebulizer. You can find the F10 on some reptile and bird websites. Reptile Basics and Bean Farm both have carried the clear kind but last time I checked on the site I only saw the green in stock - would be worth emailing one or both of them to see about the clear stuff. Sometimes a vet will be able to get it for you as well. You also need a nebulizer, which can be found on Ebay anywhere from $25-50+ depending on which model you choose. I have a Devilbiss 4650D from when I was a kid and needed breathing treatments. It is kind of hard to explain but once you have the F10 and the nebulizer in hand it becomes more clear on how to rig up a fogging chamber. I attached where the nebulized medicine comes out to a sterilite container which you can place the snake inside and fog for 15-30 minutes 1-2 times per day. I fogged some of my snakes for over a month just to be sure. 

When you get the F10 you want to dilute it, 1ml of F10 per 250ml of water. The nebulizer I have has air tubing connected to it which connects to a medicine chamber that a mask or breathing tube is directly attached to. I just took a larger piece of aquarium tubing and popped it onto the top of the medicine chamber, then made a hole in the sterilite tub I wanted to use for nebulizing. Fit the tube/medicine chamber fixture onto the tub and you should be good to go. The smallest container you can get away with is best so a thick fog is produced that the snake will be saturated in for the full duration. Some people try to save a few bucks by using a reptile fogger instead of a nebulizer, I recommend against this 100%. The nebulizer is designed to break the particles down to 0.5-10 microns depending on model so the medicine can reach even the smallest passages in the airways. 

As for antibiotics, personally I'd try to go for something less harmful like Fortaz (Ceftazidime) over Baytril if you can get access to it. It is fairly broad spectrum and doesn't carry the same risks as Baytril. It is always best to get a culture on the RI but I understand some people don't have access to decent vets or vets period sometimes. Most antibiotics require a prescription so if you don't have a vet you might be out of luck on that front. Some people try Tylan which can be acquired at a farm store, but it isn't a miracle product and doesn't work for everyone. Good luck.

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