iHerp Answers: OK... I'm stumped on this one;BCC digestive issues

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OK... I'm stumped on this one;BCC digestive issues

Posted By:

Kaiyudsai

In Relation To:

Accuzio [BCCm501]

Male bcc, Surinam about 9 months old.
Captive bred. Has a digestive disorder. Continuously has soft light brown foul smelling poo. Did a fecal float, no parasites present. Growth rate is normal, shedding normals, cage parameters perfect, healthy appetite. Discontinued handling in an attempt to lower stress level. Breeder actually warned me of this and extended a credit down the road should I lose him. I purchased this guy because of his great genetics(sibling to my hypererythristic Suri). I've never seen a continuing problem like this. Usually this sort of thing is stress related in bcc's similar to regurge. I'm thinking this guy could possibly have a disorder that causes him not to reabsorb water from the stool in the lower colon. I havent rulesd out viral and bacti though. I'm considering a course of zithromycin next..... any similar experiences out there??


Points:	250
Topics:	Digestive
Tags:	Bcc
Species:	Boas > Large Boas > Boa constrictor constrictor
Administrative:	Show/Hide

Author Comment

4/29/2009 6:49:14 AM

Kaiyudsai

ANyone have Dr House's number?????

Member Comment

4/29/2009 9:55:45 AM

FyreFocks

Hey kai, i dont know anything about anything here, but could it be the prey youre offering? I mean, i see youre feeding him mice now. Maybe you could throw him a weaned rat just to see how his digestive system handles it?

Member Comment

4/29/2009 12:16:10 PM

magsj387

Kai, try and E-mail mmitch@illinois.edu He's an amazing herp vet, he's rather slow to responses but all around a good guy. Have you changed anything around in your housing recently?

Member Comment

4/29/2009 12:19:05 PM

magsj387

I should add that you could try contacting his office at the University of Illinois Vet Med and see if you can get his office phone and leave a message as well. 217/333-5300 He's pretty good with personal calls as well.

Member Comment

4/29/2009 12:34:51 PM

Katie M

I know that you've done a fecal, but it sounds like it might be entamoebas? I've heard that they are really difficult to locate on fecals, because they're very small and difficult to identify. I had a couple of kids come in with it, and it was easily treated with Metronidazole - why not try that before the Zithro?

Assisted Answer

4/29/2009 1:34:44 PM

RB3067

I agree with Katie M. I would run a course of Flagyl, it really is amazing stuff that is consistently being shown to be effective for a broader and broader range of issues. It is very safe and you really have nothing to lose whereas with the Zithro you risk upsetting the natural gut and intestinal Fauna which could possibly worsen the existing problem or create new ones. Good luck with him. He's a sharp looking animal!

Assisted Answer

4/29/2009 1:55:09 PM

EricIvins

Probiotics all the way. Avoid Flagyl, Panacur, or any De-wormer or Anti-Biotic. I've had a few imports go through this. It is a process, one that takes 6 months + to correct. I've lost a few on the way, it comes out to a 50/50 shot on whether it can be corrected. If they do go downhill they do so fast. They'll start loosing muscle tone, go flabby, may or may not puke, etc. Once those symptoms start, death is only a few weeks away. Very similiar to Coccidea and a few other nasty Bacteria. What I've found is a probiotic treatment every week or two, followed by conservative feeding does the best. I've tried most of the De-wormers and Anti-Biotics with very little success. Again, it takes a LONG while to correct. The animal will keep the nasty stuff coming for months, but gradually, if it is going to work, the poo will start firming up. I've also found that some re-lapse after months of doing good. Now a days, if I receive an animal like that, it usually is Euthenized because it is a lose-lose situation. I would never breed or introduce it to another animal. This isn't just a Boa thing, many other snakes get this, and this is one of the incarnations of Emerald Regurgitation Syndrome ( ERS ).

Author Comment

4/29/2009 2:48:32 PM

Kaiyudsai

Like Bfido and Lacto???? I'm going to do a gram stain on the next stool and maybe a C&S.... but I'm only using antibiotics in a last ditch effort....WHere do you find active probiotics?? WHat sucks is this guy is CB... I know this is mildly contagious so I have it in lockdown

Member Comment

4/29/2009 3:16:33 PM

RB3067

I would definitely go with the Flagyl, I have used it MANY times with no ill effects. As far as probiotics there is insufficient data regarding their use and benefits in reptiles. I'm a huge advocate of their use in humans, dogs and Birds. I use them regularly with all three. If you do choose to use probiotics and cannot find a product made specifically for reptiles be sure to get an avian strain probiotic. Don't bother with anything made for mammals as you will just be wasting your time and money. Check with a vet for dosage info and frequency of use. Take care of that critter, it would be a shame to lose a sweet Suri like that.

Author Comment

4/29/2009 3:24:27 PM

Kaiyudsai

I've nursed boas out of the regurge back in the 90's when they were all imports.... but this is different.... the snake is putting on weight... eating... all that... but he's had the stool issue since Nov..... so if he was going to crash, he would have by now I would think... that's why I'm thinking it may be physiological

Author Comment

4/29/2009 3:27:00 PM

Kaiyudsai

Member Comment

4/29/2009 3:54:16 PM

EricIvins

Nutribac DF. Doesn't matter if it's an Import or not, they all have the same bacteria(s), and this one has an imbalance. I've seen it in CBB Bolivian Amarali, where it is more common than BCC. Like I said before, it is a process. Some do really well than crash, others look horrible and eventually pull through. I've looked long an hard for a paper written by Ralph Chapman dealing with ERS, which identified a nasty bacteria that was virtually impossible to find, that caused the same symptoms. Out of three animals, one pulled through. It was treated with Albon, but once it was past a certain point in its life cycle, it was untreatable. Take it for what it's worth, but you need to do everything in your power to keep that snakes immune system up. I've tried keeping a few at room temp while they were being treated, and they all died sooner or later. Those that were kept to where they could use their environment to keep their immune system healthy fared much better. At this point I would consider that animal at absolute zero, where very little good gut Flora exists. Get the good stuff working again and you should see some better results, though it may not happen all that quick. Thier are some very nasty Bacteria out their that are virtually un-identifiable. The situation referenced above involved fecals every 3 or 4 days, and got to the point of timing the cycles of all the common, non-virulent bacteria, to find the nasty stuff.

Author Comment

4/29/2009 6:38:36 PM

Kaiyudsai

I'll try that out.... and document everything... research style.... thanks

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