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Q:
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Ball Python Issues...
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In Relation To:
Vyvian
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My baby BP, Vyvian has a little problem and I would like opinions on how I've decided to tackle it. Bearing in mind he is my first BP so this is based purely on a combination of my overall knowledge of snakes, previous experience with different groups/species of snake and the research I've done into royals.
I have had him for around 4 or 5 weeks now. When I bought him (on a sunday) he had eaten the day previously. So, the following saturday I fed him, he took it no problem. The saturday after, he fed again just fine. The saturday after that he refused it. I left it with him overnight, it was still there in the morning so obviously I removed it and didn't think much of it. The following saturday, same again. 2nd flat out refusal. At this point it may be worth noting that he's a baby male and it's summer over here atm so it's not like I could be dealing with an adult males winter fast! but anyway, tbh, at this point (this was the saturday just gone) I'm not too concerned, I figure he may be due a shed as he hasn't yet in the time I've had him which is about a month now. Yesterday is when I got concerned about him. I had him out and he was happily sat in my hand and exploring my lap when I felt him jerk a tiny bit, almost like a hiccup. He did it a few more times so I held him up to my ear and listened... there it was. A very slight, only occasional wheeze and very faint, barely there and even more infrequent 'pop'. Respiratory problems.... great. First port of call, check the temperature and humidity... all is fine. His hot spot registered at just shy of 100ºF and his humidity was high enough but not too wet.
So, here's what I've concluded.
Possible causes:
- Stress due to me over handling him.
- Stress due to upcoming shed.
- Something more serious... vague, simply because I don't know what!
From this I have decided that I am not going to touch him or attempt to feed him on saturday as I usually would. On monday I will get him out of his tub and check his breathing and look for any signs of an impending shed. If there is any change for the worse I will take him to the vet and get him on anti-biotics. If not I will continue to quietly monitor him for the rest of the week until feeding day. I will then attempt to feed him on saturday and see if the rest from handling and attempted feeding has relaxed him enough to want to eat again... unless of course he has begin the shedding process by then in which case I will wait until he's finished.
I'm not worried per sé at the moment because I know that they can be finicky feeders and I know that shedding can cause susceptibility to problems like this as they get a bit run down in the run-up to it. But all the same, I am concerned about his breathing and of course, as he's so young, even if it is normal, the lack of eating is still bothering me sufficiently for me to be keeping a very close eye.
Now then, don't get me wrong, I am not delaying a vet visit because I can't be bothered or because of money or anything of the sort. I am just giving it a couple of days because a) I want to monitor him and be 100% sure of what I'm dealing with first. b) I don't want to stress him out by putting him in a bag and taking him out to get poked and prodded if it's not necessary as extra stress will only make it worse and c) vets are unavailable unless its an emergency over weekends anyway. I know that I've caught the respiratory issue in the very early stages so I am at least relieved about that.
Anybody got any other suggestions of things I could do myself to either make his environment better for him or suss out what the problem is etc? For reference, he's in a medium sized Contico with a heat pad underneath one end, orchid bark substrate, a cork bark hide, silk leaves to hide beneath and a resin water bowl.
Thanks in advance if anyone can suggest anything.
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:43:00 PM
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FyreFocks
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I would try putting him on newspaper or paper towels and seeing if that doesnt help. Usually the first thing to cause respiratory issues is the substrate. Outside of that I cant think of anything. Let me know how hes doing in a week.
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Author Comment
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6/28/2008 3:43:19 PM
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Tea
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I may just give that a try. Whereas I agree with what you're saying about the substrate thing, orchid bark is not something I or my contact at the place I bought Vyvian from have ever had problems with... I had respiratory issues with a young boa a few years ago which was kept on the same stuff and that cleared up without a change of substrate so I dunno... but hey, it's worth a try for the good of my little buddy so I'll give it a go :) Cheers Nate.
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:43:31 PM
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:43:55 PM
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dalvers63
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In regards to the other poster saying to lower his hot side by at least 10 degrees, that is not correct. Ball pythons need a hot side of 92-94 F. Lowering it a bit would be good, however if he really IS coming down with a RI the hotter temp will be better to help him fight it off.
Your thoughts of leaving him alone to de-stress is a good one. I'd follow what you feel is correct and see how he is on Monday. If he's still sounding like he's got problems off to the vet with you both. He could be off feed for shedding, as you suspect or because he's getting sick. Let us know how he's doing !
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:44:06 PM
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:44:21 PM
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Playballp
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I'm with Deb A. Try keeping the hot spot at 94 (a little high but will help with an R.I if it is an R.I) I have one question tho, what kind of substrate are you using? and, do you feed him in his enclosure or different one? I'm asking this bc you mention it felt like a hiccup. There's always the risk of impaction when you feed inside their enclosure and using a substrate other than paper. Also how often does he do this? When you say humidity was high enough but not too wet, is the substrate wet at all? remenber you want air humidity and not a wet substrate. Oh yeah, almost forgot, what are you feeding him, mice/rats? if its one try switching him to the other (keeping same size meal of course) he'll probably take it. Best of luck!
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Member Comment
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6/28/2008 3:44:37 PM
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Playballp
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^- That's what happens when I start writing before checking ur bps tracking. Substrate looks good (too big to be accidently swallow) How heavy is she? Looks about 100 grams. They're usually pigs at that age. Keep an eye on her weight to make sure she's not dropping too much. I wouldn't trust the analog thermometers u got in his enclosure. They're not that accurate. The best tool I've ever got is a temp gun, digital thermometers with a probe are great too. U never know it could be much hotter or colder in there then what it reads. Too much heat can also cause illness. Try keeping the humidity at 45-50 percent. Keep us updated
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Author Comment
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6/28/2008 3:44:56 PM
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Tea
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Hey guys, thank you so much! As regards the temp in the hot spot area, I say just shy of 100ºF cuz my analog thermometer is a bit vague on the inbetweens so to the exact degree I'd say it's closer to 97-98ºF. I actually repositioned the heat pad underneath that end to maximise the temp (which is when it reached this point) in order to increase chances of getting rid of any resp. difficulties so at present, it is warmer than it has been but only by a couple of degrees or so.... not much.
Diego, you've hit the nail on the head with the thermometer problem, like I said above. I'm actually looking into a digital device that monitors both temp and humidity. The substrate isn't wet, no... only just damp underneath at the cool end and moist obviously after I spray the tank. He weighed in at about 110 grams on thursday so I will be keeping a close eye on his weight. Like I said, he happily pigged out on his first 2 feeds but since then he's just lost interest it would seem :(
I'm just hoping it's shed related and that it all ties in with that to be honest. The hiccup thing was definitely a respiratory thing... I watched and listened very closely and it all seemed to tie in with his breathing rather than any kind of abdominal problems. As you noticed Diego, his substrate is too big to ingest really, I've observed snakes feeding on this stuff many many times and in the event that any does get stuck to the prey it is always either brushed off during constriction or knocked off during actual ingestion of the food animal... certainly not like smaller substrate particles. Also, this stuff is supposedly digestable although I'm not sure a) how true that is or b) how relevant as it may be that it takes a long time to digest it if it is indeed possible!
But anyway, I'll keep you all updated. I'm just staying away from him ight now to give him a good, quiet rest in the hopes that heightened temp, lessened activity and no stress from attempted feeds may work for the better.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
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Accepted Answer
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6/29/2008 11:22:49 PM
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RB3067
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I agree with FyreFocks in regards to the substrate you're using. It's the perfect hiding and breeding ground for parasites, bacteria, fungus, mold etc., especially when wet. I would use either paper towels or newspaper. I would replace the water bowl with a larger crock style water dish. More surface area = more evaporation = higher ambient humidity. This may help with the audible breathing issue if it is not a respiratory infection. If it is a R.I. you should see a good Vet with Herp experience. In addition to whatever course of meds prescribed, I would clean the enclosure and everything in it frequently with a good disinfectant cleaner. I prefer Nolvasan (Chlorhexadine Diacetate) myself, but there a few other good ones on the market also. Worst case scenario you can use a diluted bleach solution, 1 part bleach to 10 parts water. Just be sure to rinse the enclosure thoroughly after cleaning. If after everything else your BP still refuses to eat, I can only say "Welcome to the world of keeping ball pythons!" Some eat great, Some don't. You may have to try different prey items. I've owned more than a few ball pythons that would take a mouse today, a rat the next feeding, then go off feed all together for a month or so , then start eating anything you threw in it's enclosure for a few months. All this with captive bred animals I was raising up for breeding stock with no change in Temp, humidity, day length, etc. If all else fails and your BP won't take rats or mice, live or dead you can try gerbils. This may not sound very appealing and it is a bit more expensive, but many times it works. I grew tired of dealing with the sporadic feeding issues of some of my Ball Pythons, that's why I no longer keep them. Hope this helps. Good Luck!
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Author Comment
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6/30/2008 3:52:15 AM
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Tea
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That's great, thank you :) I probably ought to have mentioned at some point that the water bowl in the photo was replaced with a larger one more or less straight away. That pic was taken the day i got him home and whereas I thought I already had a dish kicking about what I didn't realise is that it was that crappy one :P He got a new one the very next day. But anyway, I will indeed be changing out the substrate, see if it helps at all. I briefly checked him over last night after a weekend of being lefts well alone... put it this way... his 'character' hasn't changed at all, he's still a little on the nervy side but he was defending himself as always. I'll be weighing him in again this week just to make sure he's not dropping any and, fingers crossed, from what I could hear/feel, his breathing seemed ok. I'm taking him for a second opinion probably on wednesday which will decide whether or not anti-biotics are necessary. I just wish the little bugger would hurry up and shed... and eat... so I can stop worrying! I knew to expect this at some point being that he's a BP but seriously... so soon?! Gah.
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