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Accepted Answer
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9/5/2008 11:32:08 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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I have never done that and never had problems ..... It's been my experience that the snakes react more to the smell of prey, rather than the action of opening the cage before feeding..... If I even walk in the snake room with a rat...all of the snakes get excited and are in feeding mode....and if I would reach in any of their cages then I would be lucky not to get bitten.
I don't have any problems reeaching in the cage when there is no food scent in.
I think that snakes probably don't have the cognitive ability to associate things like that....but I'm sure you will find alot of differing opinions.
If you have one or two snakes then maybe feeding in a separate cage would be an option. But multiple snakes make that a little unfeasable. I personally don't think it is necessary. Keep him in his cage....it's a secure place for him, and snakes feel even more vulnerable and stressed during feeding sessions
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 1:36:42 AM
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aalomon
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I agree, especially with the bigger snakes. My retics are still ready for more a couple days after feeding. Iwould hate to have to be the one that has to move them from their feeding talk to their cage if they are still looking for more food.
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 2:12:13 AM
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FyreFocks
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I feed all my snakes in a separate container but if i fed them in the cage, they would eat no problem. The reason i do this is because i clean the cages and take photos while they are out. I have no issues with my snakes regardless of where i feed them. The 2 carpets pythons i used to own ate wherever i fed them. I dont know why yours would be so picky.
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Assisted Answer
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9/6/2008 2:25:02 AM
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Jeffriey
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Same here I agree with kaiyudsai and Brittany. I've never run into a problem feeding in the same enclosure. If I walk into the room with feeders all my snakes know it. You would be surprised what they can smell and how far away even within their enclosures. Most of them are still ready to strike and eat again right after feeding so it's unsafe to try and move them. The scent is still there and they may strike at anything that moves and it's true it's not feasible when you have mutltiple snakes. When there is no scent I don't have any problems either. Same applies for my smaller snakes too. I've also gotten into the habit of tapping lightly on my large Burmese and Retic to let them know when it's not feeding time and I'm taking them out.
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 8:54:51 AM
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FartherAway420
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I feed all 4 of my snakes outside of their tanks. However if I had several more I would probalby start feeding them in their actual tanks, with exception to the sandboas. Some say it may stress the snake out moving them into a seperate feeding tank which may hold more true for more timid snakes such as Ball Pythons. Great question by the way!
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 9:03:50 AM
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FartherAway420
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Also I wanted to add that my Ball Python will do the exact same thing where IF he refuses it in a seperate feeding bin I can put him back in his tank and as long as I put the food on the "correct" side of the tank it will be gone within a few minutes.
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Assisted Answer
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9/6/2008 10:06:45 AM
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dalvers63
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I used to be one of the "feed them outside of their enclosures so they don't become food aggressive" crowd and if you only have one or two snakes, that may still work. With upwards of 40 animals now, I've been feeding inside enclosures for over 2 years with no issues whatsoever.
From what I've discovered over the years and as I'm sure others will tell you, you're in the cage WAY more often to change water, spot clean and handle your animal than you are to feed it. My snakes all know when I'm thawing rats and if it's feeding day you better have a rat when you open their cages. On any other day they are perfectly safe to work around.
As for your carpet, they don't take change very well. If you want to switch him to the other cage, I'd feed him in his current one, then switch him and make sure there are lots of hides and it is the proper temps. Leave him alone for a week or so to digest his meal and get comfortable in the cage (maybe even 2 weeks, if he's that temperamental) and then try to feed him in the new cage.
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 11:10:10 AM
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Jeffriey
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Good point Deb. As my collection grew and so did some of my animals for space, I've had to juggle around my snakes into new or bigger homes. Feeding them before moving so that they settle in by next feeding has worked so far for me with no problems. I'm not sure what your set up is like but you may want to try and duplicate as close as possible whats in the 35 gallon tank seeing it's refusing if you feed it on the wrong end of the tank. It adapted once when you got the snake I'm sure it will adapt again. I still can't stress enough that handling has only been my problem to feed outside the enclosure. I have fed outside the cages a few times only because I tried to feed while cleaning but each time you pretty much have to pin down the head of the snake to grab it and let it know its just being picked it up. This must have caused a certain level of stress to them. As mentioned it may not be so bad with the two IJ's you have. They still seem to be fairly small enough to handle while still in feeding mode if you have to feed in separate enclosures. Some of my snakes I'm sure I would have no problems to move for feedings but I still feed in the same cage. Why cause unneccesary stress. With all the snakes I've owned IMO as docile a snake can be it becomes unpredictable when hungry no matter how much you trust it. I've been tagged a few times. It's only natural instinct for them
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 11:16:40 AM
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mack1time
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Never understood the logic bejind this.
"They " say that if you feed in its enclosure it will associate your hand with food. However after they are done eating in a seperate enclosure what is to say they will not still associate your hand with food when you are going in to move them back? Makes no sense to me. Also it does cause undue stress to a snake that has just eaten.
Although people like mass breeders or who do not regularly handle, observe, clean etc.
And only open the tank 1 time per week to feed and absolutely no time else will tend to have aggressive snakes?
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 11:24:47 AM
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Mel4short
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Not so much a black and white issue here, there are many exceptions to the rules. I work in a pet shop, Animal Trax, and I'm in charge of feeding the snakes. We feed nearly every snake outside of their enclosure. Having multiple snakes in one tank does make it impossible to feed in the habitat(I have heard horror stories!), but that is only one reason. Most of our snake are eating FT and the possiblility of them dragging bedding and other depris in with their meal is something we prefer to avoid. My son currently owns a ball python we nearly put down because of a large blockage from ingesting some bedding(it was a hatchling that came to us in that condition). I worked with the snake for over a week to get it back on track, she had eating issues for a while, but is thriving now. Like I said, there are exceptions, we do have a few snakes who will not eat unless they are fed live prey in their enclosure. These are watched closely and defecation noted. We've made efforts to change this, but without success. With my personal collection, I feed all my Chondros in their tank from their perches(a given!), but I also have a BRB who will only eat in his enclosure. All others are fed in seperate containers. The size of the container makes a difference, too. The smaller the better. Too large a container and they explore the space before concentrating on eating. As for those really large snakes, we don't keep those in the shop and I'm not familiar with their feeding habits. Other on here are better equiped to answer. The "cage aggressive" animal is, in my opinion, that way for reasons other than just feeding in the tank. I do feel like some snakes can become "conditioned" to certain behaviors on our part and react accordingly. Most of the time, husbandry, or lack of, and carelessness play a large part in whether or not you get bit!
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 12:01:25 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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I agree................Mel has pointed out the one exception..............Never feed snales that are kept as a colony in the same cage at the same time....I've heard of snakes swallowing another snbake along with their rat.............But I wopuldnt suggest housing any snakes together unless it was in a "petstore " situation...of a new batch of babies
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 5:03:22 PM
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taenia
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I feed inside enclosures most of the time, except in enclosures that have a lot of substrate, where I feed outside of the enclosure to reduce the chances of substrate impaction.
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 7:27:49 PM
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tmth
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Occasionally I'll feed outside the cage- and thats usually when I have an 'audience', or its picture time, or because my one sibling girl is a doofus and sometimes won't eat unless I stick her and the food in a paper bag. I really haven't noticed a difference whether I feed in or out- minus the one girl, my carpets all love to eat. I've tried seeing whether or not if I stick my hand in there and just keep it there if they'll try to go for me as food-- and they don't. They all come up slowly and investigate, then either leave or crawl on me. I stick the rat in.. come up, investigate a lot more quickly, and BOOM. Struck and coiled before I can blink.
Do you think maybe he's associated his old cage with eating? What if you moved him in there just for feeding? Or maybe an hour or two before feeding so he can relax a bit, then feed and when he's done move him back to the new cage? 2/5 of my carpets have been very timid- including when with food.
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 7:53:11 PM
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REPTILEN1NJA
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i just got a question i feed inside my tanks to but i heard that if they ingest some of their substrate they could get sick is this a rumor or tru?
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Member Comment
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9/6/2008 9:25:31 PM
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FyreFocks
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Ninja, the answer to your question is yes, its true. Impaction is always a possability when you feed your snake on some form of small, swallowable substrate. All my snakes are kept on paper towels for that reason, although i normally feed outside the cage anyway.
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 2:25:48 AM
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Oroborous
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I've always fed my snakes in seperate containers. It works well for me and that's how I prefer it. I used to really worry my snake would strike the glass and hurt herself. I think it's safer to take snakes out of their cages to feed them, especially if you feed live.
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 4:09:48 AM
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Katie M
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My way of getting around the whole "too many snakes" to feed outside their enclosures is to get everyone over to tongs. Even my picky snakes that only eat live are able to recognize that delectable treats are dangled in by magic sticks, but hands are to clean, hold, etc. I, of course, still get bit occasionally, but that's stupid human errors, as I find myself dropping the rodent, and reaching back in to get it ... yeah, it's been a long couple of weeks :)
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 1:56:40 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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I use tongs as well................the one time I didn't my 14 foot retic went for the warmer target(my hand) and nailed me with 2 of her teeth on my thumb.....that was close... Use tong esp if you feed F/T prey......... If your snake if a heat tracking species they always place the final strike on the warmer target
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 1:58:26 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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Oh about substrate....I wouldnt worry.......snakes swallow substrate all the time in the wild...If you are using any kind of woody substrate it's OK.............I've never had a single case of impaction with cypress/aspen/and spagnum
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 4:18:04 PM
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lilsundrop
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its simple. feed outside the "home" enclosure IF::
1. subrate can be swallowed
2. snake is handled infrequently and associated opening of cage with food following immediatly after
3. picky eater who eats only out of home enclosure
feed inside "home" enclosure is ok when:
1. substrate is paper towels/news paper or none.
2. snake is handled frequently, there would be minimal chance of assoicating hand with food that way.
(1/10 times you feed, 9/10 times your handling, association is made to handling, not feeding.)
3. none picky eater or is picky and only wants to eat in "home" enclosure.
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 4:36:18 PM
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ap1fun
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Kaiyudsai, I'm really going to disagree. Stating that you have never had a problem with a snake swallowing substrate is ok. Stating it is ok for it to be ingested because you have never had a problem is far from OK. I have a medium sized carpet who's had 2 impactions from cypress substrate. One was rather bad, your expierences differ from others.
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 5:18:42 PM
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marcos
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the only time i feed outside of thier cage is when I have a reluctant feeder and ever then it is a last resort I wouldnt want to move a snake back into its enclosere that still has food on its mind
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 5:33:58 PM
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Kaiyudsai
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Maybe it's because I keep retics, bloods, and anacondas.................they have rather large butt holes.....................Still then...ingestion of substrate is a natural part of being a snake that hunts and eats on the ground..........
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 5:56:43 PM
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FartherAway420
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"Still then...ingestion of substrate is a natural part of being a snake that hunts and eats on the ground"
There is a reason that most snakes live longer in captivity. Keepers who can elimate the chances of things like impaction, disease, mites, ect. are reasons they do live longer in captivity. Why take the chance if you can just elimate the posibilty from the get go?
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Member Comment
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9/7/2008 5:58:18 PM
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Author Comment
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9/7/2008 6:58:26 PM
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Sparkle
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Thanks everyone for your comments! And a big thank you to Deb and Jeffriey for your input on tanks; I'll get theZooMed set up again and move him a day or two after a big feed, and see how he does. (Substrate is paper towels ,btw, and I always feed with tongs). Happy herping, all!
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