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Q:
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Diamonds- mice or rats?
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I have 1.1 diamond pythons. The female is considerably larger than her brother. They were supposedly born late June '09. The breeder I got them from was feeding them both 2 f/t mouse pinkies every 7 days. Once they were in my posession, I fed the female 3 f/t mouse pinkies and the male 2 f/t mouse pinkies every days. The male, I wish to keep on 2 f/t mouse pinkies a week due to his smaller size, but the female I believe could take 1 f/t mouse fuzzy a week.
Since I started thinking about the food items' size in accordance with the diamonds feeding regimine, I was thinking about the future, whether I should start feeding them f/t rat pinkies once they can take them, or if I should just stick with mice for the rest of their lives?
Opinions welcomed, advice taken appreciatively.
thanks,
JG
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 4:44:29 PM
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Sylvias
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I assume you are referring to diamond carpet pythons? If so then get them on rats ASAP. I have had numerous people tell me that carpets tend to get addicted to mice and can be very problematic trying to switch to rats so it's best to just start rats as soon as you can.
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 4:50:32 PM
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KidChondro
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yeah, Diamond Carpet Pythons (Morelia spilota spilota)
Not sure if you know this, but Diamonds come from a cooler environment.. They need to be brumated during winter down to the low 50s F, a basking spot at 85, ambient temps at 80-83, night temps at 75 during warm months. You are supposed to feed your diamonds slowly. Most cases of death from diamond pythons are from over feeding. they build up too much fat around the muscles and they die. you're supposed to raise them slowly, which is why I'm hesitant to switch to rats. rat have a higher fat content, which is not really something my diamonds need. So I figured sticking with mice their whole lives wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I just wanted some other diamond owners' opinions in this subject to get a better understanding of this delicate species.
-JG
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:17:44 PM
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bloodraven
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If it's a pure diamond, I would say to keep it on the mice for now, but still get them switched to rats eventually, but don't power feed them. If it is a diamond x jungle (which they mostly are nowadays) then go ahead and switch em both.
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 7:24:53 PM
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KidChondro
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they are pure diamonds.
I guess once they're big enough, I'll get them on rat pinks every 2 weeks so they have time to burn off some calories. They are both very active at night and readily eat every week.
-JG
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:30:33 PM
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Geckofactor
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I don't know about most diamond python deaths coming from overfeeding it's certainly a concern but years ago when I had a breeding pair of these guys most peoples concern was lack of vitamins and calcium and septicemia during brumation by people inexperienced with bringing them down temp wise and cutting off the food with juvies and sub adults. I'd keep them on mice for awhile then switch to a varied diet of birds, mice, and ratpups. Some people disagree with that because they think they will get stuck on one single prey item but that's never been a real issue for me with those guys.
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 7:33:31 PM
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KidChondro
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hmm can they digest the beak as a yearling?
what's septicemia?
I didn't brumate them this winter cause they were just born late June and joined my collection in December, so I didn't want to start in the middle of winter.
I will brumate them this next winter though.
-JG
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:37:47 PM
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FyreFocks
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I think a diet of mice for now is just fine, with maybe a variety diet later on life. Like a lot of chondro keepers are noticing, a solid rat diet proves to be too fatty. I dont know if this carries over to other morelia sp., but i wouldnt take the chance.
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:41:23 PM
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Geckofactor
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If they're big enough to take the bird down yeah they can digest every part of it no problems and they're obviously very low in fat I've seen those guys grow at very different rates though so obviously just use judgement on what they can fit in their mouths. Septicemia or sepsis whatever you want to call it in the cases I'm speaking of is just when you chill them before making sure they've digested all their food and it rots inside them and causes severe infection. I hated keeping them honestly because it's one of the few snake species I feel like brumation is very important in especially if you plan on making any money back and breeding them and it was just too much to deal with clashing with other temp controlled rooms of the house.
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 7:44:00 PM
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KidChondro
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definitely. I've seen many fat chondros out there.. some females are even too fat to breed!
It's sad. I have am '04 male Aru who would eat a small rat every 3-4 weeks. I was sure to give him a longer digestion period with an extra week or two added on top of that just to make sure he gets some excercise before his next meal.
and diamonds definitely don't need to be fat. They're found in the wild long and slender; therefore, I try to keep them at that same description.
-JG
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:44:13 PM
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FyreFocks
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Ken, how long after their last feed would you recommend dropping the heat? The only breeder ive seen said he waits a month a half. Too long? Too short?
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 7:47:47 PM
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KidChondro
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I agree with that too. I'm nervous about brumating them. I had planned to stop feeding November 1st, begin to gradually lower temps, then throw them in the garage in a styrofoam container in the beginning of January, give them a chance once a week or so to get a bit of heat in the morning for 3 hours or so at 70F, then let them out at the end of February.
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Member Comment
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2/21/2010 7:48:44 PM
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Geckofactor
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Yeah I'd wait atleast a month minimum and monitor their bowel movements. I had a friend who was really successful with those guys and even he ended up having a female go in for surgery because he droped the temps too early. So a month minimum closer to two is good depends on their feeding schedule and such. You gotta remember as juvies those guys put down some food so it will be a feeling out process that first brumation.
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Author Comment
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2/21/2010 7:56:52 PM
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KidChondro
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alright cool. thanks. I'll be very cautious when brumating them. Like I said, stop feeding November 1st, drop temps gradually, then into the garage early January at temps around 50-55F, then out at the end of February.
hope everything works out for them next winter
-JG
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Member Comment
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2/22/2010 12:08:44 PM
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shellboa
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I have a cross who is a garbage disposal and will eat anything. Her two offspring are another story and the male is still a mouse fiend, the female will take scented rats now (yay) I would introduce new prey now but keep the main diet mice. They can digest birds from birth/hatching. Some people cut the feet off of the birds due to bacterial concerns but being properly frozen and thawed should address most of those concerns. Always buy chicks from a known reputable source.
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Accepted Answer
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2/22/2010 7:54:15 PM
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Jamey
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First off.......switch them to rats asap(mine eat rats as their first meals),I have not had any problems switching diamonds from mice to rats,but why take the chance,it takes alot of mice to make a meal for an 8ft. adult female.The fat content of rats is not a problem if you are not overfeeding and their enclosure is big enough for plenty of exercise(believe me they will use every square inch you give them).I feed them 1 properly sized rat a week until they are about a year old,after that males only get 1-2 regular meals per month and females get 2-3 regular meals per month.This is not too much food as they will not be eating at all Nov.-March.
You mentioned putting them out in the garage in a styrofoam container for brumation.I put them in large(4'x4'x2') enclosures where they have room to choose their own temps from those available to them.They have a heat lamp on a timer from 7am to 11am every morning.This lamp is not on a T-stat so the basking temp is dependent upon the ambient temp,but will usually be between 70-82 degrees.During brumation I will let the ambient temps drop as low as the high 40's and reach as high as 70.This year I have tried some warmer brumation temps(55-70),but have not even made intros yet so we will see.
Jamey
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Member Comment
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2/23/2010 6:57:40 PM
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Author Comment
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2/23/2010 11:53:57 PM
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KidChondro
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awesome, awesome.
I'll have to go back and write this all down this weekend so I don't forget!
Thanks!
-JG
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Member Comment
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3/2/2010 9:13:06 PM
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Acheron_08
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i say get them on rats asap ... my male cross was a PITA to get off mice now after 4 months of working with him he is now happliy taken rats Z:) if they wont take the rat pink try scenting the rat pink with a mouse :) thats one of the things i did among other things :) good luck :)
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Author Comment
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3/2/2010 9:22:32 PM
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KidChondro
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I fed them both rat pinks this passed weekend, took them without hesitation! I love my diamonds.
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Member Comment
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3/2/2010 10:45:50 PM
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Acheron_08
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cool :) let me know when u decide to breed them:) i have been looking for a male pure diamond but i can't seem to find any one who will sell me a single male ... i want to breed it with my diamond cross i have :) curious how that will turn out :)
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Author Comment
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3/2/2010 10:47:58 PM
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KidChondro
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It'll be abother 5 years or so before they're ready to breed. You should try getting a hold of Will Bird, Gary Valle, or Doug Price. You can find what you're looking for with any of those guys.
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Member Comment
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3/2/2010 10:55:23 PM
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Acheron_08
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yeah i just bought a pair of carpets from will brid that guy is awsome to work with :) but i think i will email him and see whats what then thanks:)
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