|
Q:
|
Am I over reacting?
|
|
So there is this kid on what I refer to as "the idiot boards" who thinks he is ready to keep a false water cobra....because he has kept reptiles (corns and balls) for two years and worked with his uncle, so of course he knows everything there is to know. He is 15. Says that a false water cobra will be his stepping stone to the world of the hots. Now I say that this is not an animal he should have at his age and experience level. Not only that but it would be much more beneficial to get a highly aggressive non venomous as opposed to a relatively calm semi venomous, in terms of preparing for hots at least.
I am a pretty firm believer that one must be at least 18 before they can even start training for hots (and training is a MUST) but when it comes to rear fanged not so hots...it's hard to say
I am also wondering just how hot FWC's are. There seems to be a lot of controversy and I have read that their venom is comparable to a timber rattle snake, or even a western diamond back but the delivery system sucks and it is smaller amounts. If this is true then it doesn't really matter how poor the delivery system is one good strike could still land you in the hospital. Even if it had to chew, removing snakes that strike and hold can be a chore at times and it would likely have time to get the venom in. Not to mention that if the kid happened to be unlucky enough to be one of those people that has a bad reaction to the venom he will probably die. Most hospitals do not carry false water cobra antivenin if there even is any.
So what does everyone else think. Am I being to harsh on the kid?
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 1:40:48 PM
|
|
vonnick52
|
I think it's up to the kids parents to tell him what is or isn't OK for him to try. They know him and his responsibility level. Age isn't always a huge determining factor in maturity. The earlier the training starts, the more experience the kid will get before he's legally allowed to buy hots, the less likely he is to get dead. Sounds like a good idea in my book, providing the kid isn't an idiot.
Not all kids are stupid need to be bubblewrapped to get through life, but some do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 1:41:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 3:00:36 PM
|
|
JohnJohn
|
hahahahahahahaha. Bubblewrapped! I love that.
I don't know a thing about FWCs. But I do agree with Nick that it really depends on his parents and/or uncle. I do know some kids that I think could handle it fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Author Comment
|
10/26/2009 3:01:33 PM
|
|
Sylvias
|
|
I realize that and I do know a kid, also 15, who has number of animals including a pair of heralds snakes. He is typically arrogant but he does know what he is doing. The problem with this one is that I don't get the impression that he really does know what he's doing, it sounds more like he is in it for the cool factor. I can't say for sure because I don't really know that is just the impression I get.
and in MANY cases the parents don't care or don't know what their kids are doing. Some parents are like mine and say no reptiles what so ever. Some are the exact opposite and let their kids do or have whatever they want with very little question. I would say this is a big reason why so many reptiles (like iguanas) are mistreated, killed, released, or given away. There are very few parents however, who are actually involved and actively encouraging their kids to get into reptiles and helping them along the way making sure they know their kid is doing it right. Again...this is the impression I get from this kid but I can't say for sure.
Which also brings me to my other primary argument for kids and reptiles.... by all means if they can have some they should as long as they are providing proper care...but they should also limit themselves because they will one day need to move out and go to college either to a dorm or their own place....either way taking a ton of animals with them will be difficult financially (assuming wherever they move LETS them keep the animals) This kid supposedly has a breeding business with his friend (also a youngin) and theres nothing wrong with this really (as long as proper care is provided!)... but they do need to think about the future when THEY have to start paying for themselves AND their animals....
anyways thats somewhat off topic.
I don't want to discourage the kid from keeping things....I just feel, from what I have read in his posts, that he needs to take it a bit slower.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 3:49:06 PM
|
|
Haterox
|
|
False water cobras are pretty harmless but I have seen some nasty reactions to the venom allergy wise let him get one and get an epi pen and the best snake as a stepping stone to a venomous snake is a venomous snake because you'll have more respect for not getting bitten that way no matter how aggressive the non venomous you'll still be more likely to let it bite you knowing it's harmless. I kept a lot worse at that age.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 4:35:23 PM
|
|
JohnJohn
|
|
The only thing keeping me free of hots is the fact that I don't want a divorce. LOL. Just sayin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 4:37:40 PM
|
|
aaron
|
All you can do is recommend what you would do. If you haven't done the hot progression personally, or worked incredibly close with it, then your words will fall on deaf ears. I would say if he's a friend of yours, you email regularly, hook him up with someone who keeps hots. If it's just a casual KS user, then make a comment like you did ("consider getting a very aggressive non-venomous alongside the mellow hot"), or tell him to buy one of my biaks. And then let it go.
Nick, you nailed it WRT maturity.
The "cool factor" is a typical motivator, in itself not a bad thing. I'd rather see someone nerdy and humble and into the cool factor, than someone arrogant and cocky who has "skills". Arrogance gets you bit.
I've had mangroves, I think those are a decent tweener (yes, tweener).. they are agressive, but not insanely quick (IMExp).
Take a helpful tone, be patient. Remember how you were when you were fifteen. :)
When I was 15, I was a programmer with a sarcastic mouth on him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 4:46:50 PM
|
|
Krestie Kate
|
|
When I was 15 I dropped out of regular school to homeschool and run the family buissness with my mother. Now I own my own home. Alot of people say i'm more mature than my other 18 year old counterparts. I do agree moveing all the animals and paying bills can prove to be a problem. Maybe you should run that by the kid? I do agree to ask him to try owning a non-venomous agressive snake before he gets into hots. Thats all I got.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 4:51:48 PM
|
|
magsj387
|
|
I say we let Darwinism take its course and let the kid do what he wants...hes not going to listen to you from my experience with kids his age, and if his parents aren't gonna have any say...then so be it, they'll still have to front the medical bills.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 4:57:00 PM
|
|
shellboa
|
|
Well if it isn't your kid, give him your two cents worth and let his parents deal with the rest. It sucks to have to sit back and just watch some times but hey, imagine standing around with the guy who stuck the ratlle snake in his mouth? What the hell can you say? Kudos to you for giving a damn but don't let it weigh on you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 7:09:03 PM
|
|
abi21491
|
|
I really don't think age is an issue. If that kid is as mature as I was at 15, I'd say he's okay. But I've found most aren't... But heck, most people 10 years older than I aren't either. I think it depends on the person more than putting an age on things. I always hated that anyway... BUT, I'd say 2 years of experience is not enough time, just based on that. I personally don't consider FWC as a dangerous animal and people do keep them as pets, but 2 years is enough time to be keeping beginner to intermediate species, maybe. I guess my point is a snake doesn't care if you are 15 or 115. Everyone has the chance of getting bit, what matters here is your responsibility and experience. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you... After all he isn't your responsibility. I'd say my piece but leave it at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 7:25:00 PM
|
|
Geckofactor
|
|
I like how these people who don't own hots are giving advice on how to go about owning them. A FWC isn't dangerous and so what if the kid is a douche if you said he was thinking of getting a black mamba okay maybe I'd be concerned but that's not the case. I've kept hots almost my entire life I brought a copperhead to show and tell in 3rd grade and depending on where the kid lives that would be a better starter venomous. When people ask my opinion on first hots I always tell them to get something local that has the least dangerous venom and you probably won't die.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 8:57:36 PM
|
|
aaron
|
Nick and Ken, I've deleted the comments because they're not adding to the question at hand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Author Comment
|
10/26/2009 9:47:19 PM
|
|
Sylvias
|
|
Most of what i mentioned regarding school and non venomous vs semi venomous i have already run by the kid....
it isn't someone I know or like even so I don't care if he gets bit by something he wasn't ready for and dies but I do care about what the media will say about it.... some 15 year old kid keeping hots who gets bit by one and dies probably wont escape some really bad press.
And I am usually not one to care about physical age because mental age is far more important BUT if there is no age limit on keeping dangerous or potentially dangerous creatures then young ones who DON'T have the mental age for it will think its ok and add to the problems.
HOWEVER I don't know much about false water cobras -or many rear fanged venomous in general- except what I have researched briefly for this occasion.... so in general going off the AVERAGE mentality of a 15 year old kid (not one who is unusually mature for their age and knows what they are doing) are semi hot snakes ok for them to keep?
In relation to this kid exactly....his experience consists of balls and corns, he mentions working with "all sorts of things" with his uncle but he never specifies what or how much interaction he actually has.....just by his attitude in general he doesn't sound (or type) like someone who should really even have to many animals at all let alone possibly higher level ones..... although I will add that I am fairly biased on these boards because the VAST majority of people on those boards are very young, very inexperienced....VERY ignorant.... So i tend to assume the worst of most on those forums......
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 10:20:30 PM
|
|
masterfulpoopsie
|
Hey Just because someones young, don't doubt there experience, Im only 21 and have kept reptiles in some way or another for 13 years....Ive never kept any hots, but I guess im just not retarded, I did keep retics so where does one draw the line? 15 year old with a retic, or 15 year old with a Gaboon?
Id say, Get the kid some Liasis, Fuscus would be best, and let him play with them, there fast, mean, high metabolisims and did I mention how fast they are?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Author Comment
|
10/26/2009 10:23:31 PM
|
|
Sylvias
|
|
I don't agree with kids keeping large snakes without their parents be deeply involved either....but then again I live in florida where it is a ridiculous problem and now even more so because of all the publicity.... Keeping large dangerous snakes seems to be more cool now BECAUSE it's illegal! >=/
I actually fully support spreading the permitting system we have here now for hots and ROC's across the U.S.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/26/2009 11:39:34 PM
|
|
FieldTrialTrainer
|
So wait a minute masterfulpoopsie, "Ive never kept any hots, but I guess im just not retarded"
What gives you the right to say keeping hots makes one retarded. I could say the same about anything you keep.
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make the other person retarded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/27/2009 11:09:44 AM
|
|
WingedWolfPsion
|
|
Well, he isn't likely to die from a FWC bite, so I'd say, just let nature take its course. It's up to his parents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/27/2009 9:37:01 PM
|
|
masterfulpoopsie
|
|
Re-read it....I still was a retarded kid for retics at 15.....Don't look to far into the wording or youll start seeing stuff!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/27/2009 10:41:41 PM
|
|
aSnakeLovinBabe
|
|
I am simply going to leave it at this: maturity level, and when a person should be ready to try new things, should be based purely on a person to person basis. I have met 15 year olds who are mature enough to be 25. and I have met 25 years olds who are less mature than my 12 year old brother. I absolutely hate it when people say "you should definitely be so-many-years old to do this, or that. In my expierience, most 15 year olds would not be mature enough to handle a fully grown FWC. They are a LOT of work. and they are seriously aggressive feeders. and they poop a lot :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 12:17:50 AM
|
|
iatro
|
I will vouch for the fact that FWCs poop like every other day. and it really stinks. they are also like kittens when it comes to the feeding response; anything that moves goes in the mouth! I think they are very expressive snakes though. they have a different body language, but I like that I can tell from a glance whether my snake is calm, annoyed or ready to take a finger off.
I'm not sure on the effectiveness of an FWC as a "trainer" for hots though. probably because I have no experience with hots. I also don't know if getting a "trainer" for hots is effective, period... I've heard some people recommend just getting an aggressive snake instead, and keeping a chart for every time you are bitten. (a mark on the chart = possible fatality or at least a hefty hospital trip) ... here is also the obvious advantage of no possible allergic reactions to venom etc., just minor blood loss ;]
again, no personal experience here ... I just feel it would be "better" for him to try and get experience with hots. no I'm not saying he should run out and get a copperhead, but see if he can volunteer at a local zoo with the reptiles or a local breeder can let him observe them handling/feeding/cleaning their hots.
I'm quite sure they don't make antivenin for hydrodynastes gigas. if anyone does, it's probably in South America (where they are native), so if you have a reaction from a FWC bite, good luck. seems like a better idea to keep an epi pen on hand, which isn't a bad idea for any venomous animal, especialy if you aren't sure if you have an allergy or not!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 12:46:30 AM
|
|
WingedWolfPsion
|
Well, at least keep an epi-pen on hand after your first exposure--allergies only develop after a person has been exposed to something once first. A similar type of venom, for example.
I think he should get a FWC, get bitten, and learn just how much venom hurts, so he gives up the idea of keeping hots, and his parents are alerted to the fact that they should be monitoring their son's pets more closely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 9:01:46 AM
|
|
Sony Raju
|
|
wow, personally i havent kept hots, so this is just my opinion. i say give your opinion, and if this kids parents are ready to take on the liability of their son keeping something like that, then let him. i think its not responsible of us to not say anything though. thats just part of reptile keeping. that being said, if this guy is gungho about this, and he is mature, then maybe its ok. but i wouldnt suggest it. ive kept reptiles for many years now, and have always wanted some eyelash vipers, but i dont think i trust myself enough to purchase a pair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 5:39:53 PM
|
|
iatro
|
well... an FWC bite may not necessarily hurt much. it's most likely he'll just get bitten and not envenomated. it's possible he may get bitten several times without being envenomated -- and to a foolhardy person, this could lead them to believe "well, that wasn't so bad!"
I also found the venom to be more irritating than painful the one time I've gotten it. it was from a yearling (so rather small), it just made my finger swell up and itch like mad for a day. annoying, but not painful. YMMV though ;]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 9:14:36 PM
|
|
Geckofactor
|
|
Alright well I'm thinking it's probably about time to close this one down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/28/2009 9:22:57 PM
|
|
aaron
|
|
Fred, your comments are off topic and have been deleted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/30/2009 3:26:02 PM
|
|
FFReptiles
|
I'd have to step on a couple of toes here... might get flamed for it... BUT...
I've been through quite a bit by the time I was 15 or 16 or so- online people thought I was around 25- living reality in Israel+going through troubles at home kind of did that.
But then the army came, and went... and I started out on my own and... no matter how mature you think you are, your perspective and descision making abilities will evolve as you grow older.
I am not saying that there aren't mature young people out there, but I do know that it is also a biological fact that the part of the brain responsible for descision making evolves fairly late.
Are there exceptions to the rule?
sure...
But getting a hot snake jepordizes not only himself but his family and neighbors...
I also personally believe that maturity is not the only factor here, not everyone can deal with Hots... they demand cool of mind and quick reflexes. I do not trust myself with them- and that comes from a person who commanded a tank. To take responsibility for such a thing... you need to be a very specific individual with very specific qualities IMHO
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
10/30/2009 3:30:25 PM
|
|
magsj387
|
|
Correct me if I'm wrong here too. But Hots are much more demanding on the wallet as well, proper housing, safety, equipment, possible permits in order to keep it legal, ect...That might be hard for a 15yr old to come by as well...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Author Comment
|
10/30/2009 3:32:02 PM
|
|
Sylvias
|
|
Yeah i had brought that up as well...i'm not sure if things like false water cobras are actually considered among hots or not....
anyways i think the kid did decide not to get one just yet
thanks for all the help guys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Member Comment
|
11/11/2011 1:15:25 AM
|
|
Nightflight99
|
|
I realize that this is an ancient thread, but I saw that it was still open and thought I'd provide some insight into keeping Hydrodynastes as a "starter venomous snake" for anyone who might be researching that topic, and comes across this discussion. I have kept and bred venomous snakes for many years, and used to regularly breed false water cobras. They're generally not very difficult snakes to manage, but their substantial adult size and their ferocious feeding response make them more suitable for keepers who have a few years of experience with keeping larger, fast-moving snakes.
As far as the venom is concerned, H. gigas packs a fairly toxic punch, but their venom yield is very small, making a serious envenomation unlikely (though certainly not impossible!). I always treated adult specimens with caution, as the potential physical damage of a bite from a large specimen is incentive enough for me to use proper protocol and handling techniques. With juveniles, it was always a different story. I have received bites from hatchling H. gigas many times, and never once observed any kind of symptoms beyond what a random non-venomous snake would produce.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You are not logged in. If you would like to participate (it's free!), you must log
in, or Become a Member!
|
|
|
|
Most Popular Tags
Ball
,
Ballpython
,
Bci
,
Behavior
,
Boa
,
Breeding
,
Buying
,
Caging
,
Care
,
Chondro
,
Cornsnake
,
Crested
,
Crestedgecko
,
Eggs
,
Feeders
,
Feeding
,
Feedingproblems
,
Gecko
,
General
,
Genetics
,
GTP
,
Health
,
Heating
,
Humidity
,
Identification
,
Illness
,
Incubation
,
Infection
,
Leopardgecko
,
Mites
,
Morelia
,
Morph
,
Morphs
,
Parasites
,
Python
,
Regius
,
Respiratory
,
Shedding
,
Snake
,
Substrate
|
Latest Questions
|
|
|
|
points:150
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
More Questions
|
|
|
Latest Answers
|
|
|
|
points:250
|
|
|
|
points:150
|
|
|
|
points:100
|
More Answers
|
|
|