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Q:
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continue the snake education
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Okay i'm just trying to further my snake edu here, so before anyone one jumps to conclusions, NO I AM NOT LOOKING TO BUY HUGE SNAKES!!!! I just think Education is power, and I'm power hungry baby! So here are my questions....
1) how fast does a Burm, retic grow?
2) What size enclosure would a 7+ foot Burm or Retic need?
3) whats the average cost to feed these beautiful beasts?
4) i here retics are more aggressive than the burms, true or false?
5) whats the average length for adult burms, retics? (minus the dwarfs and super dwarfs)
6) when it comes to genetics, do snakes have breed papers like dogs?
7) How do you prove parents are the parents? (did you know they have doggy "who my daddy DNA tests?) Do they have these for snakes?
8) Whats more common the Burm or the Retic?
9) Is incubating burm or retic eggs diffacult??
Ok I think that is my questions for now. Thank you for taking the time to read this. And like i said, im just trying to further my education, with first hand info. From warm blooded people, not a cold text, that can not answer back when i get stuck or confused about something.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 4:38:03 AM
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masterfulpoopsie
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1) how fast does a Burm, retic grow?
2) What size enclosure would a 7+ foot Burm or Retic need?
3) whats the average cost to feed these beautiful beasts?
4) i here retics are more aggressive than the burms, true or false?
5) whats the average length for adult burms, retics? (minus the dwarfs and super dwarfs)
6) when it comes to genetics, do snakes have breed papers like dogs?
7) How do you prove parents are the parents? (did you know they have doggy "who my daddy DNA tests?) Do they have these for snakes?
8) Whats more common the Burm or the Retic?
9) Is incubating burm or retic eggs diffacult??
1. As fast as you want it too, or in most cases too fast, a burm or retic can hit 9 ft in there first year if fed well enough
2. 7 ft? 6x2x2 would be more than fine...a 15 ft? well give it a room..
3. more than you can afford, they will eat you out of house and home if you let them
4. Retics can be more aggro but retics are more intelligent and active so some mistake a retics active nature for aggression....burms are just blah, retics are crazy smart!
5. both seem to be 13-20 feet with exceptions to both,
Question 6 did you even have to ask? Have you ever bought a snake with a pedigree? Only animals that come with pedigrees are GTP's
7. Yet again you serious? If your breeding for a trait you use one male and only one male...the only way this becomes a problem is if the girl retains sperm even then....whos your daddy?
8. every large species that should be hard to get is common as hell
9. never bred them, dont plan on it so your out of luck here....but id be willing to guess there the same....its like incubating a bp egg or a carpet egg.
NOW I have some questions for you...these are all questions of someone looking at buying a big snake..my advice...DON'T...gop buy a coastal carpet and power feed the damn thing and you will have a nice big snake.
why do you care about most of these questions? they seem to be more aimed at peoples acceptance or tolerance of these animals, if your not keeping them why care?
Not trying to be cold blooded, but these animals need a permit system or the breeders need to be responsible...i see tons of 18 and younger kids at a local show buying retics and burms....its pathetic on all ends-EXCEPT for the few that properly take care of these beautiful giants, the responsible keepers can keep them and do what they wish.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 8:43:35 AM
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vonnick52
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"Okay i'm just trying to further my snake edu here, so before anyone one jumps to conclusions, NO I AM NOT LOOKING TO BUY HUGE SNAKES!!!!"
but......(I saw this the other day)
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160152
Why lie?
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 8:45:27 AM
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FyreFocks
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I dont know anything about burms, but i see an opportunity to tell Pat that hes wrong, so im taking it.
Hey Pat, the ACR keeps pedigrees for all registered corn snake breeders. Do your silly carpets come with pedigrees?
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 9:12:14 AM
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flboy21283
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Busted. Good call von. Poopsie hit the nail right on the head. You want a snake that will sit there until you feed it, go buy a ball python. They come in lots of colors now. You want a snake that's gonna be crazy aggressive and try to kill you every time you open the enclosure with no fear, get a subradiata. After keeping large snakes for the last 13 years, i can safely say there are Other amazing options out there for those that don't have the attention span, proper housing, OR most importantly (taboo subject) MONEY. Yes, feeding, vet bills, housing, are additional to the catchy $100 price tag. As for breeding. I Believe an animal that has FLOODED the captive market should not be bred by an amateur (or bred at all until the market changes). If you want a hand at breeding snakes, learn about a species that there isn't as many of in captivity.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 9:16:54 AM
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vonnick52
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I'm not trying to "bust" anyone, I'm just not a big fan of bullshit.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 11:47:30 AM
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 12:13:08 PM
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FyreFocks
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Tre, you really know how to hurt a guys feelings, dont ya?
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 12:25:19 PM
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Geegmasta
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Firstly, I feel like I really need to chime in here.
1. Poopsie pretty much has the first year of growth down. If you give that snake optimum temps and feed it every week (and believe me, it's going to eat every week) then it is going to grow as fast as you want it (or in most beginner's cases, DON'T WANT IT) Yeah, your retic can be 9ft in the first year, that's a pretty moderate assumption. I've read up to 13ft in some captive specimens. A 13ft animal is automatically at least a 6' x 3' cage. Once it starts approaching 18ft, time for an 8' x 4'....unless we're talking condas or burms, with their girth they should already have a larger enclosure.
2. You want to know the average cost? It's as much as you're willing to spend. And you better hope you have someone around to breed you rabbits and even larger prey items for cheap, or else you're never going to want to feed it...then you're building poor husbandry (and a risk to yourself with a big hungry snake) for the sake of saving a few bucks. Me and a friend of mine on here breed our own rodents, and trust me, there is A LOT. And we also have a dedicated rabbit breeder who will wholesale to us for cheap. Even then, he has a hard time keeping up with the amount of rabbits I need sometimes. It would probably cost me close to $200 a week to feed my animals from a petstore. (especially with the way I like to feed them)
3. Both snakes are naturally very aggressive, period. Retics, in my experience will bite you without a warning waaaay before any burm will. They are QUICK if they want to be. Burms tend to be bratty and hiss left and right but can be all talk. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously. Remember, it only took an 11ft retic to kill Amanda Black last year.
4. I see you have corns, uros, geckos and royals. If you really want to start getting experience with the big boys in the snake world, work your way up. A big coastal carpet would be good, a blood python or even a really large BCC. Even in NY, where these larger snakes are rarer, then say, down south, I am constantly hearing of them dying or being "rescued" and I've already picked up 2 myself. This is a responsibility more than any corn or royal would ever hold. What are you doing with an 18ft burm 20 years from now? Cause if you take care of it right, you're going to have a 30 year old snake...maybe even older. And retic? Forget it, look at 20ft or more with that time frame.
5. How are you going to handle the animal? If you don't handle it, it will become severely aggressive. But I don't see just you handling a 200lb snake, it requires a partner and sometimes more. Do you have people willing to help you, that KNOW what they're doing? I can't emphasize enough that these big snakes ARE FUCKING DANGEROUS IF NOT HANDLED AND HOUSED PROPERLY. They can make phenomenal pets if you have the experience and know-how though.
6. Do you enjoy cleaning up 20lbs of feces or more per week?
7. Urination will soak the entire cage, better clean it quick. And by soak, I mean take a gallon or two of piss and throw it in there. Your snake can't sit in it. You need to be on your game.
I could go on and on and on. Take it from me, I've been doing big snakes and crocodylians since I was 16. I own a bunch of retics and other large species. The point of a ladder is to not jump to the top, but to go step by step. You need to re-evaluate buying a burm and look into something that you are going to be able to handle by yourself. Ever been bitten by a bigger carpet python? Arboreal teeth are longer than terrestrial python teeth, and it's going to hurt. Now imagine being bitten by something twice the size of said carpet, with bigger teeth and a hell of a lot more strength. You could be a lucky one and have that never happen, but odds are, you won't be that lucky, no one is. If ya keep playing with fire, you WILL get burned...cliche I know, but it works here. Re-think what you're doing.
AND, if you are asking these questions, it shows that you have NOT done pretty much any research on these species. And with a commonly kept species like a burmese, there is an abundance of information in books and on the web. This is a snake that you can not be lazy with. I'm not being a dick, but I don't want my right to own the animals taken away because inexperienced people don't do the required research or just jump into it...I see it all too often. Don't be that person.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 12:30:32 PM
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Skelegirl
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Wow. Don't you think you should've researched even a tiny bit before looking for a burm? All of your questions blatantly point out that you've done no research at all, and yet you're already looking to buy. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I'd hate to see another impulse-bought burm end up on craigslist once the excitement has worn off and reality has set in.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 12:32:05 PM
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Skelegirl
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Whoops, looks like Geeg and I were working on our responses @ the same time! Sorry for the repetition!
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 1:14:54 PM
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flboy21283
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I forgot I left my soapbox at Dan's house. I'd like it back when you're done sir. lol. As for this post, and your post on fauna, It's the reason why there's now laws and ongoing legislative battles against keeping large constrictors as pets.
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Author Comment
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1/5/2010 2:22:23 PM
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hupababy83
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WOW I JUST LOVE ALL THE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS! 1st of i did post the add on fauna, was i going to buy a burm YES I WAS! for me... NO!~ i have a friend in canada who says the prices are huge, so i was gong to buy one for him and ship to him! (BEFORE I KNEW THE FUCKNG SHIPPING PRICE TOO CANADA!!!!!!!) wasnt even going to be in my house! Yes i wanna know about burm and retics, AND anacondas! Why is wondering what a keeper goes thru such a crime!? If anyone pays attention to me, which i doubt they do, then they would see that i was against a burm of my own. I dont understand the bashing! No one fucking bashed on me about the carpets, and chondro's? If my friend wants to stand up and get bashed too thats his business! but dont bash on me becuase i was trying to buy a gift, and then decided to learn more! this is bull shit! just goes to show this forum is full of hypocrites and drama! if someone did by a burm this is not the site to come to. you people make some wanna comit suicide. I was curious CURIOUS as to what a big snake owner goes thru! I have a 3 year old daughter that i need to think about! I cant have a 15foot snake no matter how tame running around!!! My god!! so much for trying to educate oneself!
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Author Comment
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1/5/2010 2:35:03 PM
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hupababy83
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PS I WAS NOT LOOKNG TO BUY FOR MYSELF, SO MUCH FOR BEING A LOVING FRIEND! but you guys know everything right? Like how to make a person feel like shit! and by the way, to the people who are looking to buy a burm, go somewhere else, because if i just got bashed this much for trying to be educated, your better off with a book.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 4:22:50 PM
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masterfulpoopsie
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No one cares stop lying. No one Bashed you for carpets or chondros well gee because neither is huge....and how you asked was a i want to learn question...not a im debating buying.
Be careful how you word what you word and mean what you say when you say it, its the internet theres no way to tell mannerisims, or attitudes or anything.
The people looking to buy a burm go through the same shit...if you can't take some PEER ON PEER CRITICISM about owning a MAMMOTH SNAKE than perhaps its best you don't own one at all.
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Accepted Answer
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1/5/2010 4:24:15 PM
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Kita
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Do you people truly have no life or self esteem that you have to jump anyone's ass and shove them in the mud? I would rather post like this directly asking experienced keepers (after searching previous questions so as not to be too repetitive) than pull up a book thats a few years old at best and generally the opinion of only one. You can hear from many people and collectively average out similar positive information this way, USUALLY (but not often here).
And just because you keepers are pissy about the ban doesn't mean you need to blame everyone. I would say otherwise if she had posted "I just got this snake, now what do I do with it?". I happen to know that Betty will ask all these questions again from the person who answers with an animal for sale. Even if she got answers doing something like this, which I highly recommend AGAINST because so many of you here have better-than-you sticks up your asses.
And its very obviously your frustration on the ban is bringing such responses because everyone was SO happy and helpfull responding about Carpets and Chondros, which are not ridiculously targeted and slammed by the news. And if it isn't that, than why didn't anyone bring up the over-the-boarder shipping issues?
This is why I don't consult people here.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 4:53:52 PM
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amarilrose
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Kita, while some of the above responses may sound a little harsh, none of this is about ripping Betty down. This is reality. The questions asked in this post reveal that she has not looked for any of this information on her own first. Some folks on here have more of a sense of humor about how they word their responses, which is what I am seeing. They're "smartasses." But I don't think that is offensive in itself. Why would people resort to smartass responses? Probably because if they didn't they would in fact get offended over the nature of the questions they're responding to. Everyone is trying to be nice... but this is not much of a topic for levity. No novice keeper needs to get their hands on one of these snakes. Period.
I will stand up and fight the "Python Ban" bills S373 & HR2811... but I certainly don't think everyone needs to keep these animals. I would love to hear a decent policy discussion about regulating or licensing keepers of the "giant" species - so long as the responsible keepers who really want to keep them are not hindered.
If you are legitimately seeking information about a species of animal to keep as a pet, do so with some respect for those who keep them, and do make some effort to look up some information on your own so you can add something to the discussion rather than asking for all the information you need to be provided for you. I have done this myself, at least twice on here: about Amazon Tree Boas, and about Carpet Pythons (a couple of different approaches to asking such questions).
That being said, this post has generated an interesting discussion that I am happy to see... and it continues: http://iherp.com/Public/Blog/Detail.aspx?uid=38098
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 4:59:47 PM
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masterfulpoopsie
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Kita, While i appreciate your input you apparently missed the whole point.
No one is bashing her personality, just her wanting a giant, which is what these questions suggest, and her ad together.
I don't have a better than you stick up my ass just a you don't need burms and retics stick up my ass! They are not suitable pets for 90% of the people who own them!
Carpets and chondros are not a threat to someones life....DUH no wonder no one was upset by that.....gee....
Over the boarding shipping issues were nver asked.....there for shes lying....if she knew what it ook to ship an animal out of country this blog wouldnt of existed.
I helped her and gave her solid advie for carpets, but burms and retics my only advicve to someone asking for it, is don't buy them if you have to research them...let the educated people play with them...they should almost have an apprenticeship program for the big boys.....if you know what yoru doing with them then hey own as many as you want..but people like Iashia, Betty, they shouldn't own one and you know it..
Im very very blunt...and straight forward...and point is NOVICES don't need an big snakes PERIOD
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 5:52:05 PM
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Geegmasta
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I'm pretty much with the Poopsie on this one. In no way do I have some "stick up my dick" attitude. I can get an attitude, if anyone is truly interested, and I'll fucking fight someone too. I don't act high and mighty because I own venomous snakes either!!! Lots of HOT owners do. But before we suddenly get lashed out you really do have to consider what we're working with here. I didn't own a big snake for years, and I was "apprenticed" with them years before I did own them, and that, I feel, is the best and only way to do it right.
There are a lot of intelligent people on here. But it is very obvious when someone does 0 research. And these questions are an insult to us if you really want to know, google "burmese python" and you will find at least 5 caresheets. It would take under a minute to find a site that is going to answer the bulk of these questions. Personally, I don't mind answering these questions but it just proves to me that the person didn't do anything in there own power to look up info.
OH, and about that ban, guess what??? As a NY state reptile educator, it doesn't even effect me. But guess what, I still wrote my letters. Am I mad over it? Yeah, but I don't take it out on other herpers. Like Poopsie, I'm straight up and sorry, but if I need to sound like a dick to get a point across, I'm going to do it.
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Author Comment
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1/5/2010 6:40:37 PM
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hupababy83
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oh my god! i said the add on fauna was because i was looking for a friend not this question! look at the publish date on the add it was like around christmas or something!!!!! I wrote this so i could know more about what my friends go thru as giant snake owners!!!! what the fuck!? I now know about the red tape and and cost/price to ship! ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN NOW! I WASNT LYING! I JUST WORDED IT WRONG! FUCK IT! I'M DONE WITH THIS SHIT!
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Author Comment
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1/5/2010 6:42:36 PM
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hupababy83
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I didnt do research because i was bored and wanted to type. sorry for fucking being lazy but i wasnt going to buy a burm for me so why do the effort of reaserch get false info, when i can come to a reptile friendly place and get first hand answers, but never mind now. sorry for bad wording!
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 8:34:32 PM
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Kita
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Nevermind. My original post got lost when I left for dinner. I'll repost on the other thread that has started up.
But point out my appreciation and admiration to the civil answers to my comment. I expected to be hailed with fire.
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Member Comment
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1/5/2010 8:50:52 PM
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amarilrose
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"I didnt do research because i was bored and wanted to type. sorry for fucking being lazy but i wasnt going to buy a burm for me so why do the effort of reaserch get false info, when i can come to a reptile friendly place and get first hand answers, but never mind now. sorry for bad wording!"
Ok, here's the big point:
Animal keeping, and questions about animal keeping are not things that are to be tackled in moments of laziness. That's why your approach has fired up so many people, and why it has been pointed out that it was disrespectful a few times (other than by me); too many people here have invested a ton of energy and attention to their animals' well-being. Animal keeping is something that should be approached with an attitude that you always have more to learn. You will never know all there is to know. You should approach it more as something that requires work and attention. Never laziness. When in doubt, read & research some more. Asking questions is great, but nobody can expect a "free lunch!"
None of this is to say that you shouldn't ever keep a giant constrictor, just that you need to change your approach before you do! As someone pointed out in your blog, you should think of the answers you got as "tough love," because the point is still that we want the best for you and any animal charges you may take on. This is also not an effort to rip you down or tell you who is better than who. This is a very touchy subject, and for good reason.
Aditionally, there is nothing wrong with writing when you're lazy... but this really isn't the venue. You could easily write a blog on here, and make sure that only your friends can see it. That way, you can be sure that you'll only get the answers you want to hear. Blog away. iHerp is a great place & it already has lots of things you can do with your privacy settings so you don't have to have a fully open discussion if you don't want to.
If you want serious answers, then this is your venue. You need to put some thought into what you ask though, and show some respect to the experienced keepers whose knowledge you are asking to benefit from. Up-front honesty goes a long way too.
Now, the reason I am posting this response here, is that in theory, this thread will be archived, and might be referenced by someone else down the road. This has been a good discussion, and has raised some very important points.
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Author Comment
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1/6/2010 12:25:40 AM
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hupababy83
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this was a witch hunt when all i asked for was a little more education! this wasnt tough love, as i stated in my origanal question IM NOT LOOKING TO BUY A FUCKING GIANT SNAKE! i just wanted to know simple info to get an idea what my friends will go thru! but it was totaly changed! I hope no one comes to this site anymore! its to abusive, hostile and everyone has a big ball complex. i was bored too and thought learning more about them would be better than other shit, but i guess i was wrong. you can keep this site and all the fucking "tough love" i dont need it! one day ya'll piss off the wrong person!
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Member Comment
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1/6/2010 12:36:53 AM
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bfpsteeler67
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Betty,
Iherp is alot more fun if you use it for tracking and looking at pictures.
And nothing else
Just a thought
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Author Comment
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1/6/2010 12:51:36 AM
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Member Comment
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1/6/2010 12:54:20 AM
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masterfulpoopsie
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iHerp is a great place, filled with tons of knowledge and is by far a very laid back forum....it is 99% about animals and animals only....so when you ask questions about animals and get answers don't get your panites in a bunch now its not like any of us attacked you personally...wanna see attacked personally psh just wait until Iashia starts some blog and watch that shit get destroyed.
My point is you can't ask a question and get upset when you don't get the answers you want.
Id love to piss off the wrong person one day itll be fun! what are they going to do about it? beat me up through the computer? come to my house? yeah suuuuure, nothing here was said in spite, or hate towards you, as I already said Better, Watch what you say, mean what you say and stand behind it, this blog is archived and now everyone reading gets to watch you act like a 4 year old because you thought people sharing the "wrong: advice was us attacking you.
I gave you plenty of advice when you asked about carpets, ill give you advice for the big ones all day too but you shouldn't even be considering a big one get something smaller work your way up youve got nothing but time Betty! I wish you the best in your future efforts and don't allow a few bad apples to ruin a perfectly great site with lots of information.
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Author Comment
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1/6/2010 1:05:40 AM
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hupababy83
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i asked a question and clearly stated i did not want to buy a fucking giant snake, when the add was brought up i exsplained that too and i ws still "tough loved" fuck that shit! I was bshed over and over for buying that snake and how i was not ready for it! I dont want it! FUCK! why cant they see that! I wanted to learn about what my friends went thru as big snake keepers, but i ws beat for asking questions! this site blows chunks the dog, and i hope it fucking crashes! I never said i wanted a burm/retic you all assumed i did! and still fuckng do! Now i know hwy people run people over! this shit is fucking pathetic! I should just go buy a whole fucking burm collection, and piss on everyone, but i wont! not because of you all but because of my DAUGHTER!
LAST TIME.... I WAS NOT GETTING THE FUCKING BURM FOR ME.... I WAS LOOKING FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING ON WHAT MY FRIENDS GO THRU.... I HOPE SOMEONE WILL SEE THIS AND SAY WHAT A FUCKED UP THING. i HAVE EXSPLAINED MY SIDE, YA'LL READ WHAT YOU WANNA YOU WILL ANYWAYS.
HASTA LA FUCKING PASTA............................
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Member Comment
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1/6/2010 8:38:53 AM
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Member Comment
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1/7/2010 5:05:34 AM
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amarilrose
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...since the fauna classified in question was deleted, in case anyone may be wondering what the content of it was, hupababy83 had posted:
"Looking for Male baby Burm. Not looking to breed so morph is not important. I do have a Albino fetish so albinos and pretty normals will be looked at first. Males will be considered first, but will look at females too.
pics, eating habits, age, length, wait, temperment.
Will consider every reply. Just looking for my special boy."
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Member Comment
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1/7/2010 3:47:33 PM
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iashia
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my special boy = boyfriend
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Member Comment
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1/7/2010 5:43:21 PM
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Member Comment
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1/11/2010 6:16:43 PM
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Sparkle
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Yep, this is the main reason I don't post questions on this site anymore. It's been taken over by a bunch of "better than you"s waiting to tell you how stupid you are. It's not so much what you say, but how you say it...and except for a few of you, the responses sound angry and scornful and hurtful. It's so sad, everyone here used to be so nice to each other...
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Member Comment
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1/11/2010 6:46:41 PM
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Member Comment
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1/11/2010 9:29:52 PM
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Boababy
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Hmmm I am new to this site, and this question made me want to leave. I would rather have a curious person ask me questions about my big snakes, than remain ignorant. Maybe if more people were this curious s373 wouldnt be such an issue. My props to this person for having the balls to ask these questions. whether the said snake was meant for her or another she did the right steps and wanted education, and knowledge. More people should be educated when it comes to animals. There would be less dumping, less use of animals shelters/rescues, less animal attacks and less phobias.
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