iHerp Answers! mail us Problem? search Search       Create an Account, It's Free!
  Home > iHerp Answers > What is the best way to treat Mouth Rot?
Q: What is the best way to treat Mouth Rot?
Posted By:

Herpetological_Girl

In Relation To:

Cheeto [HG-BCI-M01]
Sigh... As a reference please see this entry.

So now, my little Cheeto has the early stages of mouth rot. Lips are swollen, he hasn't eaten, and I can see small spots of blood on the more swollen side. So the question is, what now? I've treated him immediately with a 50/50 water & Hydrogen Peroxide solution and then followed that with Neosporin. The humidity in his bin is perfect (in fact, I might let it dry out for tonight so as not to encourage the bacteria) and I will be raising the ambient temps to 85-90. Anything else?

MORE IMPORTANTLY: Has anyone sucessfully treated this without seeing a vet? Can I get baytril without a vet appointment? To be completely honest, I don't have the patience to watch "exotic vets" manhandle my baby snake and/or give me things that won't work. HELP before this gets WORSE! Thank you <3

~Abby

Points: 250
Topics: General Health , Mouth , Medications
Tags: Bci
Species: Boas > Large Boas > Boa constrictor imperator
Administrative: Show/Hide

Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:12:45 PM

amarilrose
#1: where does Cheeto sit in his shed cycle? I've had some critters give me a 'heart attack' over mouth-rot-appearing swelling only to realize a few days later that they were about to shed. It made me feel like a real dummy, but honestly, probably a sign that we're pretty tuned in to our animals. :)
 
Author Comment 11/8/2010 10:22:45 PM

Herpetological_Girl
He's due for a shed sometime here soon, and I thought initially he wasn't eating because of that, but today it was not just swollen, but crusty. Upon further inspection, his gums are actually bleeding. When I did a gentle swipe with a Qtip and the 50/50 sol'n I got a little blood and some gunk...... =/
 
Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:26:54 PM

FyreFocks
I always used the same solution youre using followed by a rinse so the snake doesnt ingest any of the fluids. Just make sure you dont snag any teeth with your q-tips of you could make the gum damage worse.
 
Assisted Answer 11/8/2010 10:27:26 PM

LdyDrgn
Yes, we have taken care of it without a vet visit. If caught early enough, it's possible. We use either a diluted Listerine rinse (ORIGINAL.... not the flavored ones) or a diluted Chlorhexidine rinse. Baytril is not available without a prescription... and it isn't the end all, be all of anti-biotics. If it gets to the point of needing them, have a culture taken to find out of the infection is gram negative or gram positive. Personally, we prefer Claforin for infections... but it really depends on the infection itself and what will be more effective.
 
Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:28:20 PM

amarilrose
What do you have to work with? Obviously Q-tips and some H2O2. How about Betadine? Nolvasan/Chlorhexidine? I'm just trying to think of things that might be useful... in case somebody with better advice can use this information. :)
 
Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:32:18 PM

amarilrose
LOL, I guess we were all posting at the same time...
 
Author Comment 11/8/2010 10:38:14 PM

Herpetological_Girl
Hahah you guys are awesome. Yea I've got Qtips, syringes, Neosporin, Nolvasan, fish anti-biotics, etc. With frogs, geckos, and dogs there really isn't much I don't have (obv outside of Rx treatments). I'll try the Nolvasan rinse. How often should I appply? I was reading 2-3 times a day. Is this what you guys would recommend?
 
Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:48:30 PM

Jeffriey
I've also never had to go to the vet for mouthrot and have always been able to treat it successfully. I do exactly what you're doing using 50/50 water & Hydrogen Peroxide solution cleaning with a Q-tip. The only other thing I do is I bump up the temps which is what I do when treating anything such as RI.
 
Member Comment 11/8/2010 10:49:37 PM

LdyDrgn
We would do it once or twice a day *nods*. Good luck. :)
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 12:30:17 AM

HurricaneJen
I've had success with cranked up temps (like 95 to 100 on hot side, 85 on cool), and a weak mouth rinse with plain listerine.  At most, cleaned out once a day, with the animal kept on paper towel to keep gunk from getting in the mouth. 

it doesn't sound too bad, so a bump in temps and the simple cleaning should help.  cleaning too often may aggravate it and make it worse - I've seen that happen almost as much as i've seen the rot get better.  Encountered a 5' boa once with an abcessed tooth, we simply cleaned it out, cranked up the heat, and didn't touch it for a couple weeks.  I think we cleaned out the mouth maybe every other day, and for the most part just left it alone.  its face was a little funny shaped for a while, but now, a month later, you can't even tell there was anything wrong!  if mr. abcessed tooth snake can make it, yours should be okay.

Heat it, clean it, and leave it alone!  Given ideal cage conditions (which I am sure you are able to provide!) most reptiles have an amazing ability to recover from even major health issues.  :)  Give them the environmental conditions to do what they need to do to heal, and they usually bounce right back.

Best of luck!!
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 4:07:23 AM

Behindblueyes21
Hank had mouthrot really bad when I first got him. His lips were swollen and almost curled. I did what HurricaneJen did and bumped the temps high, and bumped the humidity. I just cleaned with warm water and added a natural neosporin, and within a few weeks he was clear. I can't say that will always work, but it helped my dude. Good luck! Hope he pulls through. keep us updated!
 
Author Comment 11/9/2010 7:48:58 AM

Herpetological_Girl
Thanks so much, you guys! Virtually overnight the right side of his face is almost back to normal, but the left side is still bad. Should I offer food during this time? Or should I wait a little?
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 9:03:20 AM

HurricaneJen
If he's been eating up until this, I'd give him a full week to hang out and recover before trying to feed.  Better to let him get a little extra hungry and feed for sure than to have him stress out and not feed again. 

Glad he's getting better!  :)
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 9:21:47 AM

BuddyB

Good advice so far, but I prefer to use a product called Maxi-Guard. It is available from most vets ( it is a dog product).
www.addisonlabs.com/products/maxiguard-oral-cleansing-gel.php

Best of Luck

Buddy B

 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 3:27:17 PM

Guadalahara Geckos
vetericyn is very similar but you can now find it OTC. I've used it for years. Kinda cool that it kills MRSA and E. coli on contact and you can still use it as an eye, ear, or oral rinse. http://www.vetericyn.com/
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 4:01:35 PM

Aimee
the only thing I can add here is that one of our network vets that sees our fosters recommends CHILDREN'S flavored listerine. if you use the original/adult formula, it contains alcohol that acts as an irritant. she says children's listerine is the best OTC disinfectant for herps.
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 6:00:47 PM

LdyDrgn
You don't use the Listerine full strength, it's best to used in a weak solution because of the alcohol content. :)
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 6:17:48 PM

Aimee
yeah, but if you dilute out the alcohol, you dilute out the effectiveness of the disinfectant. Listerine recently came out with an alcohol-free version; I wonder if it's better?
 
Accepted Answer 11/9/2010 8:15:37 PM

bwaffa
Mostly good advice all around, just a few comments. 

Recognize that you're operating on the assumption that this is a bacterial mouth rot.  It's a very GOOD assumption as most cases are bacterial in origin, but fungal, neoplastic and even viral etiologies should be in the back of your mind if this becomes chronic and refuses to respond to the usual treatment.  Anyway...

Don't ever use neosporin in the mouth, even on the gums.  It's a strong mucous irritant and it's not metabolized well when it gets into the circulation.  Your topical regimen sounds spot on.  I also like both dilute listerine as well as dilute chlorhexidine.  The maxiguard sounds reasonable too, though I don't have any experience with it in snakes.  If there's a lot of caseous debris, the H2O2 can help fo fizz away some of the smaller bits and you can follow it with listerine or nolvasan to targer the bacteria underneath.

If this has been occurring longer than you've realized, the infection may be deeper than you know and your topicals may not be reaching the site of infection.  In that case, systemic antibiotics are ideal, but I do not recommend baytril as it's powerfully cytolytic in reptiles (they absorb/metabolize the injection MUCH more slowly than mammals and it's been associated with local tissue damage -- I've burned my own snakes with this stuff on the vet's orders and learned the hard way).  If I had to choose one drug, ceftazadime has a good track record in snakes and is very broad spectrum, targeting both anaerobes as well as the aerobic usual suspects.  If you can pay for a cultuer/sensitivity though this is obviously a better and more targetted way to go.

Lastly, my self-serving plug... although you and others likely have legitimate reasons for distrusting self-proclaimed "exotics vets" -- hell, I've got a nightmare story too! -- please realize that there are a lot of snake-loving vets out there who are actually making incredible strides for the health of our captive reptiles, and they REALLY need your support.  The same way you die a little inside every time you read some ignorant facebook comment about how snakes are slimy or dangerous pets, my heart aches every time I heard a blanket statement about how exotics vets are incompetent crooks.  Do your homework, make some phone calls and try to establish a good professional relationship with a competent reptile-oriented veterinarian, even if its long distance.  When you have a real emergency, you'll be glad to have a professional to turn to!
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 8:31:51 PM

Jeffriey
I always get a woody listening to Brad's advice.....
 
Assisted Answer 11/9/2010 11:48:27 PM

Mel4short
LOL@Jeff! Isn't he just the hunkiest, little "vet-in-training"?!!!! We love you, Brad!!! I've had an encounter with mouth-rot. A stubborn encounter with mouth-rot. Mouth-rot(or stomatitis)is generally a secondary infection. Yes, you can treat the infection in the mouth, but have you treated the whole problem? I second those that say no neosporin. It's a topical ointment, not meant for oral problems. I'd also steer you away from the HP. The diluted Chlorhexidine as well as the diluted Listerine are good choices. I've actually seen very positive results from the Listerine. My vet also prescribed Thermazene(silver sulfadiazine). It's a 1% cream. I've treated mouth-rot in 1 particular animal for over a year. Don't get discouraged! He's wild caught. Tough as nails and finally over all that ailed him. Other nasty bacterial things going on that lead to the mouth-rot hanging on. Again, a secondary infection. If indeed you feel Cheeto has Stomatitis, hold off food, treat a couple times a day with suggested properties. Using a damp Q-tip, clean gum area first, then, also using a Q-tip, apply small amounts of Listerine or Chlorhexidine solution. I'd be happy to send you some of the Thermazene cream I have to also apply. Just don't overdue. This can sometimes cause more irritation. Are you getting a "cheese" substance when swabbing? Are the teeth still intact? At it's worse, these are biggies!! Good luck and Keep us posted!! It'll all come out ok!!
 
Member Comment 11/9/2010 11:52:23 PM

HurricaneJen
I actually know of two wonderful vets in the San Diego area if anyone needs them!  I've had excellent and terrible experiences with vets and i find it's almost always related to the individual vet, and not all vets.  :)

How's cheeto doing?  still improving? 
 
Author Comment 11/10/2010 10:26:06 AM

Herpetological_Girl
Cheeto is rapidly improving! Thank you so much, Brad, for clarifying the Neosporin thing. I saw SO many forums telling me to use it, but my gut told me "umm.... 'For External Use Only' probably means just that' ". Shoulda listened to my gut haha. In any case, the swelling is 95% gone on his right side and 80% gone on his left. We have been doing his treatments before and after work, and I think that coupled with his bump in temps, has really helped him recover. He's starting to get his spunk back too! There is still some gunk that's coming out, although the bleeding has stopped so I'm not 100% certain if it's related to the mouth rot or if it's just the Neosporin :X Needless to say, the Neosporin will stop immediately so I will know for sure tomorrow morning. He's due to shed any day now, so I'm hoping when he does he'll be back to normal. :D Thank you SO MUCH to all of you for your awesome support <3 Yet another reason why I LOOOOOOVE iHerp so damn much :D You guys are rocktastic!
 
Member Comment 11/28/2014 2:02:29 AM

Serene47

Hi :) I'm new to this site. I have a panther chameleon who I believe has mouth rot. I saw this thread and you guys seemed great and full of advice so... thought I'd try here. I'll be using the advice given on here previously and making a vet visit, but I had a few questions.  I know for a fact that my vet favors baytril... is that not the best? Also, what are some other symptoms of mouth rot? My lil guy has become very lethargic, doesn't eat much, and doesn't open his eyes much. I flush his eyes with eyewash because he has had some issues with them in the past, but lately he's simply keeping them shut for no apparent reason. He's very sluggish and doesn't want to eat anything. Lately when he sleeps at night he has been turining almost white. It scares me. I usually wake him up and hold him for a few minutes when I see this, and once his color changes to his usual blue I put him back and closer to the heat source. I don't know if I'm overreacting with the white thing, could just be him being relaxed sometimes the colors for his moods change, but it started recently. The first time I saw him white it really scared me.

I'm going to replace his UVB bulb (I usually do every 5 months, but I'm gonna do it early). Would adding a second UVB bulb for extra exposure help? I'll also add something for extra heat... trying to figure out what. It's hard to keep an enclosure hot when it's not glass. I currently have a ceramic heat emitter and a basking bulb on his enclosure. With that his cage is usually between 70 & 85 throughout it this time of year. We currently have cold weather, which doesn't make things any easier. I have a heat rope that's like my back up, and a thermostat I can hook it up to. I've never used those though. Are they totally safe to use? If I'm at work for an entire day and can't check up on him I need to know that the heat rope can't cause a fire, burn him, or simply get too hot. Have any of you used one before? I've attatched the heat rope to the back of the cage on the outside using foil tape. 

This is what I have: http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Flexible-Heat-Ropes , http://www.thatpetplace.com/hygrotherm-humidity-temperature-controller

When it comes to the baytril... I don't have the best experiences with my herp vets. So, far each one I've seen has cared and tried very hard to help as best as they can, some going completely out of the way trying to find answers, but they don't seem to know that much about dealing with chameleons. They seem to be playing a guessing game. I brought him to the vet not long ago knowing he was sick and we just thought it was his eyes bothering him again because that's been a recurring theme with him, but I noticed that this time was different and the vet didn't notice anything about his mouth or even look at it, I think if she had known what she was doing she probably would have caught it, but instead I'm here guessing, realized it on my own, and I'm hoping he lasts long enough for treatment. So, my point is... please give me some advice on which meds I should request depending on what kind of infection it is. The vets pretty much listen to what I tell and ask them because, like I said, they don't know too much themselves and don't want me to realize they don't know. If I went to my local vet and asked for dosages of a certain med for him they'd just give it to me right there and I'd just have to pay for that even without an appointment. I'll bring him for an appointment since he needs a culture done and then I can request certain medicine for him.

Thank you! :)

 
Member Comment 11/28/2014 7:07:58 AM

Aimee

I would recommend adding a new question. This won't refresh to the top like a forum post; I only saw it because I subscribed to it when it was new.

 

That being said, I'm wondering about his nutrition. 

You are not logged in. If you would like to participate (it's free!), you must log in, or Become a Member!
  

Member Login
Forgot My Password
Copyright ©2008, All Rights Reserved. iHerp, LLC | Terms of Use 4/30/2026 3:29:12 PM | 0.0.0.0